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Lithium “shortage” bubble implodes again

wolfstreet.com

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Re: Lithium “shortage” bubble implodes again

#51

Post by dylan604 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #26
dylan604 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How good are you at putting out fire that doesn't mind getting wet?

No need to dissuade people from actually learning and doing things. It is pretty trivial if you are prepared.

There is no attempt at dissuading anyone from anything. It was a simple question that is pretty pertinent to the process of the task. If the potential of fire is something you're not able to accept, then this would be pretty challenging. If potential fires are not a show stopper, are you prepared for this particular type of fire? If you are, the DIY battery is probably not going to be challenging.

What you find trivial might be too much of an ask for someone else. Because you think it is trivial and demonstrate that you clearly feel it is something you can blindly recommend to someone else on the internet is dangerous arrogance. Sometimes, it is perfectly reasonable for the response to a question to be another question.

Re: Lithium “shortage” bubble implodes again

#53

Post by marcosdumay »

sapiogram wrote: post #28
TomK32 wrote: post #14

Clickbaiting heading. The price is still 300% compared to the low in August 2020.

I don't find it clickbaity at all. I mean, it makes it sound like the price of lithium dropped massively, but isn't that exactly what happened?

A quick increase shortly followed by a quick decrease of about the same size is a completely different news from a quick decrease without the previous increase.

The article is quite clear on what happened, and interesting too. But the headline is clickbaity.

Re: Lithium “shortage” bubble implodes again

#55

Post by firebat45 »

Hayvok wrote: post #38

> The spot price of battery-grade lithium carbonate, trading in Shanghai and serving as a benchmark I'm not sure why the Shanghai price is being used as the global benchmark without any qualification in this article, because in 2022 China was paying 2x per KG more than the U.S.A. and Europe. Everybody saw a significant increase, but nobody quite like China, where it looks like a bubble. Prices have come down globally…

When you look at where the overwhelming majority of lithium batteries are produced, it makes sense to use China as the benchmark (and why it pays more than the US or Europe).

Re: Lithium “shortage” bubble implodes again

#56

Post by nostrademons »

danans wrote: post #45
nicoburns wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes up the majority of the cost?

Other expensive materials in the cathode, manufacturing costs, and the anode are most of the major costs. A visualization: https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/breaking-down-the-cost...

Lithium is part of the cathode. Looks like it was more like ~20% in 2022, though it may be down closer to 10% now that the price spike is subsiding:

https://thundersaidenergy.com/downloads/lithium-ion-batterie...

Of note: raw materials are now ~2/3 of the total price of a battery cell, because of the continued plunge in manufacturing costs. And it's pretty well distributed across the different raw materials used. That indicates that the price may not drop all that much more without a concerted supply-chain effort.

Re: Lithium “shortage” bubble implodes again

#57

Post by s1artibartfast »

dylan604 wrote: post #51
s1artibartfast wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to dissuade people from actually learning and doing things. It is pretty trivial if you are prepared.

There is no attempt at dissuading anyone from anything. It was a simple question that is pretty pertinent to the process of the task. If the potential of fire is something you're not able to accept, then this would be pretty challenging. If potential fires are not a show stopper, are you prepared for this particular type of fire? If you are, the DIY battery is probably not going to be challenging. What you find trivi…

thats all fine and well. It just came off as dismissive, snarky, and negative. a very anti hacking attitude - at least to me.

Re: Lithium “shortage” bubble implodes again

#59

Post by pjc50 »

peter_d_sherman wrote: post #49

I think it would be highly interesting if physicists/scientists could figure out how to create Lithium in the lab, maybe from Helium -- or some esoteric combination of Helium, Helium isotopes, Hydrogen, Hydrogen isotopes -- and/or energy... Now that I think about it, maybe it would be possible to make Lithium from a heavier element -- such as Beryllium (the next element in Lithium's period/horizontal row) and/or Sodi…

There's no need to do nuclear chemistry when you can fish it out of seawater.

> cheaper

Physics sets fundamental limitations on how much energy you need, which means your lower bound is set by energy prices.

It's not that scarce, it's not something like Polonium.

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