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Omegle: "How I got the dangerous chat site closed down"

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Omegle: "How I got the dangerous chat site closed down"

#51

Post by Astraco »

ErikBjare wrote: post #20
Astraco wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omegle had the obligation to protect their users, specially if they are minors. It lacked the tools and the moderation. I'm glad it is gone.

Omegle cannot perfectly protect their users from other users, and cannot determine who is a minor without ID verification (as we have seen in Virginia and Mississippi for porn sites). They clearly want the entire product category illegal. Omegle might be gone, but many similar services remain.

Does Discord or Zoom enforce their rules? How other sites like icanhazchat enforce that rule? Omegle didn't care about their own rules, endangering minors.

Re: Omegle: "How I got the dangerous chat site closed down"

#52

Post by Hizonner »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #47
Hizonner wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Traumatic" is a hard concept to nail down, but if it's useful at all, the victim has to decide what's traumatic in the end. The thing is that the victim doesn't live in a vacuum. Anybody can be manipulated. These people latch onto people who've had certain experiences... experiences that are often confusing... and also sometimes traumatic... and most often involve having been treated like crap in a major way by at l…

That's a thorough explanation as an outside, but what do you suppose it feels like as an insider?

I'm not sure of the point of the question.

I imagine it feels pretty much the way they describe it feeling.

Some of the people who go through the campaigners' mill probably end up better off than they otherwise would. Not that many people deal well with that sort of thing without some kind of social support framework, especially not in the extreme cases. If they had no true alternatives, and they didn't get picked up by the advocates, maybe they'd still be badly traumatized for life, but without the support group.

But that's a big crapshoot. Other people are going to end up with their problems amplified, and turn something that they'd get over, or mostly get over, into something that's a huge part of the rest of their lives.

In fact I suspect you usually end up worse off after you've been through the advocacy groups than you'd be if you'd done something else... even working it out purely on your own. Especially after the attention moves from your case to some other and you're down to just being a member of the rank and file with a standard "brave survivor" badge.

What would probably be best, for many and probably most people, would be to find some kind of support system that concentrated more on healing them and less, if I may be a bit uncharitable, on making them effective cult assets. It would be better for them, and also better for the next person to come along.

I do understand that not everybody has those options. More importantly, they may not see their options. Choices aren't obvious like that when shit is happening in real life. If you both had the options and understood them clearly, it would probably mean you didn't have nearly so big a problem to begin with.

Nonetheless, I'm pretty sure there are better choices out there for most people. Get a more mainstream counselor. Find a non-political [on edit: less political] group. Lean on your your wise friends and family if you have them (can be a problem for some of the worse affected...). And in some cases just plain deal with it in your own... yes, it can be perfectly healthy to just decide it's not that big a deal for you.

It can't hurt if the culture at large recognizes that there are other options, and that the campaigners don't need to be a default choice when somebody is in need and knocked for a loop.

Re: Omegle: "How I got the dangerous chat site closed down"

#53

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #47
Hizonner wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Traumatic" is a hard concept to nail down, but if it's useful at all, the victim has to decide what's traumatic in the end. The thing is that the victim doesn't live in a vacuum. Anybody can be manipulated. These people latch onto people who've had certain experiences... experiences that are often confusing... and also sometimes traumatic... and most often involve having been treated like crap in a major way by at l…

That's a thorough explanation as an outside, but what do you suppose it feels like as an insider?

It sounds like firsthand experience to me.

Re: Omegle: "How I got the dangerous chat site closed down"

#54

Post by Hizonner »

ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #53
kelseyfrog wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a thorough explanation as an outside, but what do you suppose it feels like as an insider?

It sounds like firsthand experience to me.

It is a combination of outside observation and secondhand synthesis of several other people's firsthand reports.

Re: Omegle: "How I got the dangerous chat site closed down"

#55

Post by aa-jv »

Hizonner wrote: post #52
kelseyfrog wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a thorough explanation as an outside, but what do you suppose it feels like as an insider?

I'm not sure of the point of the question. I imagine it feels pretty much the way they describe it feeling. Some of the people who go through the campaigners' mill probably end up better off than they otherwise would. Not that many people deal well with that sort of thing without some kind of social support framework, especially not in the extreme cases. If they had no true alternatives, and they didn't get picked up…

What you're missing is empathy. You've shown a distinct lack of it.

She didn't. She had empathy for the other victims that might have been out there.

And she did something effective about it. Something commendable and honorable. She took down the very means by which this widespread abuse was perpetuated.

Sometimes, being right means doing things for others. You should try that and find out for yourself just how much value empathy can add to a lifetime.

Re: Omegle: "How I got the dangerous chat site closed down"

#56

Post by mewpmewp2 »

ErikBjare wrote: post #20
Astraco wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omegle had the obligation to protect their users, specially if they are minors. It lacked the tools and the moderation. I'm glad it is gone.

Omegle cannot perfectly protect their users from other users, and cannot determine who is a minor without ID verification (as we have seen in Virginia and Mississippi for porn sites). They clearly want the entire product category illegal. Omegle might be gone, but many similar services remain.

I think in modern times in theory they could have AI analyze the conversations to spot any such grooming behaviour.

Re: Omegle: "How I got the dangerous chat site closed down"

#57

Post by lrvick »

Astraco wrote: post #48
heroiccocoa wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it shouldn't have any such obligation, because it explicitly stated minors were not to enter on its front page. Do you expect car manufacturers to make driving safe for children too?

Yes, they should. The moment they don't allow minors in their site they have to implement the measures to enforce it. Omegle became a safe haven for pedophiles and sex predators, and they are responsable for enabling them and not protecting their users. There are other chat and video-chat sites that not only enforce their rules, they protect their users and ban those who don't follow the rules. No, don't expect that…

By your logic, as it reads to me, every porn site, adult novel, car, hunting rifle, vape, and can of beer, is responsible if an underage user is harmed.

They must implement technical measures to accurately detect if someone is underage?

All these things should be banned until this technology exists?

Re: Omegle: "How I got the dangerous chat site closed down"

#58

Post by webmobdev »

Hizonner wrote: post #39
webmobdev wrote: post #16

Never realised that Omegle had become a platform for the creeps. She sued for $22 million. I don't see anything heroic in that, despite her tragic circumstances. But I really wonder what the authorities where doing - if paedophiles were using the platform, sounds like it would have been easy to identify and trap them.

"She" was working with (I am tempted to say "fell into the hands of") an advocacy organization which handled the lawsuit. The purpose of the suit wasn't ever to collect compensation for anything. It was to harass Omegle, and to intimidate Omegle and others. Demanding a lot of money damages was part of that. Driving Omegle out of business was a grade-A success even if she got zero money.

Huh? Where did you get the idea that she didn't get any money? The article says - "But she now says settling out of court for an undisclosed sum earlier this month was better for her and others."
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