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A coder considers the waning days of the craft

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Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#51
post #5

>At one point, we wanted a command that would print a hundred random lines from a dictionary file. I thought about the problem for a few minutes, and, when thinking failed Wow, this guys working on rocket science, everyone. Watch out! We might get replaced!

> Wow, this guys working on rocket science, everyone. Watch out! We might get replaced!

The issue here is that it doesn't matter what you or I think. What matters is what boardmembers, CEOs and CTOs of companies which start cargo cults. You know.. the mainstream tech companies which everyone else follows. If they start shrinking development budgets (I mean shrinking the workforce) under the guise of 'with GPT, you're a 5x-10x coder now, so you'll only handle integrations and people problems', you or I will still be affected, although not replaced.

So don't think about this in black-or-white terms. The issue is way more nuanced than the capabilities of GPT or replacing a fulltime dev job.

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#52
I have been having the following debate with my friend who does AI and neural network stuff:

Him: Coding will soon be obsolete, it will all be replaced by chatgpt-type code gen.

Me: OK but the overwhelming majority of my job as a "senior engineer" is about communication, organizational leadership, and actually understanding all the product requirements and how they will interface with our systems. Yes, I write code, but even if most of that were augmented with codegen, that would barely even change most of what I do.

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#53
I think it's more fun to program with LLMs, because rather than having just a single programming phase, you basically have three quite different phases: a first phase where you craft an initial prompt, then a second phase where you review the LLM code and ask it to make changes, and then a third phase where you change the code yourself to exactly what you want it to be.

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#54
post #14
post #6

Maybe I’m in the minority. I’m definitely extremely impressed with GPT4, but coding to me was never really the point of software development. While GPT4 is incredible, it fails OFTEN. And it fails in ways that aren’t very clear. And it fails harder when there’s clearly not enough training resources on the subject matter. But even hypothetically if it was 20x better, wouldn’t that be a good thing? There’s so much of t…

It'll be amazing if anyone can request any basic program they want. Totally amazing if they can request any complex program. I cannot really envision a more empowering thing for the common person. It should really upset the balance of power. I think we'll see, soon, that we've only just started building with code. As a lifelong coder, I cannot wait to see the day when anyone can program anything.

How would this anyone be able to evaluate whether the program they requested is correct or not?

Automatic program generation from human language really feels like the same problem with machine translation between human languages. I have an elementary understanding of French and so when I see a passage machine translated into French (regardless of software, Google Translate or DeepL) I cannot find any mistakes; I may even learn a few new words. But to the professional translator, the passage is full of mistakes, non-idiomatic expressions and other weirdness. You aren't going to see publishers publishing entirely machine translated books.

I suspect the same thing happens for LLM-written programs. The average person finds them useful; the expert finds them riddled with bugs. When the stakes are low, like tourists not speaking the native language, machine translation is fine. So will many run-once programs destined for a specific purpose. When the stakes are high, human craft is still needed.

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#55
post #52

I have been having the following debate with my friend who does AI and neural network stuff: Him: Coding will soon be obsolete, it will all be replaced by chatgpt-type code gen. Me: OK but the overwhelming majority of my job as a "senior engineer" is about communication, organizational leadership, and actually understanding all the product requirements and how they will interface with our systems. Yes, I write code,…

It kind of reminds me of this, except substitute coding for "hammering":

https://www.buzzmaven.com/old-engineer-hammer-2/

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#57
post #5

>At one point, we wanted a command that would print a hundred random lines from a dictionary file. I thought about the problem for a few minutes, and, when thinking failed Wow, this guys working on rocket science, everyone. Watch out! We might get replaced!

Do you honestly believe that the skills of software devs will never be eclipsed by AI tools?

Are you saying that you honestly do?

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#58
Much like how many people predicted we'd all be driving flying cars, the people predicting that coding will be replaced by AI just isn't realistic. Primarily because these AI models can literally only exist as long as there's humans constantly creating code for it to read (see: steal) in the first place.

AI cannot sustain itself trained on AI work. If new languages, engines etc pop up it cannot synthesize new forms of coding without that code having existed in the first place. And most importantly, it cannot fundamentally rationalize about what code does or how it functions.

The more you use it or try to integrate it into your workflow (or worse, have others try to integrate it on their own) the more the inherent flaws of the LLMs come into play.

Re: A coder considers the waning days of the craft

#59
I think more people in these comments should read the whole article before responding. The author intentionally takes several turns to arrive at a nuanced view, with a final statement that I think most here would agree with: "Hacking is forever"
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