Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads

#51

Post by StressedDev » Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 10:56 PM UTC

malfist wrote: post #30

wnevets wrote: post #18

Amazon knows all about of the garbage being sold on its site but only does something about it if you're a massive tech company who threatens to sue, very cool. I wonder how many of these thumb drives are legit. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=2+tb+thumb+drive&crid=YZ410MSN6L1...

Amazon makes money from those garbage companies having an ad war over who gets to deceive the eyeballs of Amazon's customers first, and then takes a cut when it gets sold. Customer Obsession and Earns Trust might be two of Amazon's Leadership Principles, but no principles stand in the way of cold hard cash.

I agree with you about Amazon's leadership principals. It's clear that the retail side of Amazon regularly ignores them.

My favorite example of this was I was browsing the "top 50" computer science books on Amazon. This was about 10 years ago. In the top 50, they had basic how to books (like how to use Linux or Excel), books on getting coding jobs, etc. They had almost no actual computer science books and yet, the top 50 list software almost certainly created by people with a computer science degrees!! The list even listed the same title more than once in a few cases. It was obvious that the software which built the list was broken and either had not been tested or was deployed in a known broken state. Customer obsession does not mean shipping obviously broken software which does not help the customer.

As for trust, when I canceled Prime, Amazon used dark patterns to make the process as painful as possible. Not much to say other than I do not trust companies which try to trick me into not canceling a subscription I do not want.

Re: Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads

#52

Post by BEEdwards » Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 11:04 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #36

BEEdwards wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cat is out of the bag, that term has gone napkin or bandaid.

Yeah, Trek2000 didn't really defend their mark too much. I suppose J&J probably does because I don't see anyone using Bandaid for non-J&J bandages, at least in the US.

Not for sales purposes, but I don't know what brand the bandaids I have in the cabinet are, but if i ask for one that's what I'll call them...

Re: Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads

#53

Post by kube-system » Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 11:11 PM UTC

BEEdwards wrote: post #52

kube-system wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Trek2000 didn't really defend their mark too much. I suppose J&J probably does because I don't see anyone using Bandaid for non-J&J bandages, at least in the US.

Not for sales purposes, but I don't know what brand the bandaids I have in the cabinet are, but if i ask for one that's what I'll call them...

Sure. I wasn't commenting on colloquial speech, I was commenting on Amazon's listings.

Re: Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads

#54

Post by michaelt » Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 11:13 PM UTC

StressedDev wrote: post #49

ren_engineer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my question is why hasn't the FBI seized every Amazon warehouse for knowingly selling counterfeit goods? They do this routinely for smaller businesses selling fake stuff

Probably because seizing the entire warehouse is an awful and unjust idea. First, Amazon's warehouse hold merchandise from other companies. Why should they be punished because Amazon or a different company is selling counterfeit goods. Second, do the retailers know they are selling counterfeit products? There is a huge difference between intentionally deceiving people and getting hoodwinked by thieves. For example, i…

> Second, do the retailers know they are selling counterfeit products?

Everyone selling 2tb thumb drives knows they're selling counterfeit products, yes.

They will of course strategically claim ignorance if confronted - a lie only the most naive would believe.

Re: Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads

#55

Post by kube-system » Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 11:15 PM UTC

ren_engineer wrote: post #37

wnevets wrote: post #18

Amazon knows all about of the garbage being sold on its site but only does something about it if you're a massive tech company who threatens to sue, very cool. I wonder how many of these thumb drives are legit. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=2+tb+thumb+drive&crid=YZ410MSN6L1...

my question is why hasn't the FBI seized every Amazon warehouse for knowingly selling counterfeit goods? They do this routinely for smaller businesses selling fake stuff

Because they don't "knowingly sell counterfeit goods". Amazon employees don't create these listings, other people do.

Someone that "knowingly sells counterfeit goods" is humanly aware that a specific item they are selling is counterfeit, and decide to sell it anyway, which is not the case here.

These listings are taken down whack-a-mole style as Amazon is made humanly aware of their existence.

Re: Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads

#56

Post by kube-system » Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 11:19 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #54

StressedDev wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because seizing the entire warehouse is an awful and unjust idea. First, Amazon's warehouse hold merchandise from other companies. Why should they be punished because Amazon or a different company is selling counterfeit goods. Second, do the retailers know they are selling counterfeit products? There is a huge difference between intentionally deceiving people and getting hoodwinked by thieves. For example, i…

> Second, do the retailers know they are selling counterfeit products? Everyone selling 2tb thumb drives knows they're selling counterfeit products, yes. They will of course strategically claim ignorance if confronted - a lie only the most naive would believe.

Technically speaking, those 2tb flash drives are fraudulent, but not counterfeit. (which generally refers to misrepresentation in brand origin)

Also, the word "knowingly" requires the person taking action to have the knowledge in their head. Someone else knowing it isn't enough to qualify.

Amazon's listings are not curated. Amazon knows nothing about fraudulent listings until later brought to their attention. These fake flash drives exist for short period of time until they are brought to Amazon's attention, at which point, they are taken down.

Re: Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads

#57

Post by lapcat » Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

qgin wrote: post #9

How is this any different than Apple having its own wood-and-steel display area in Best Buy?

Amazon has more than a third of all online retail and is close to surpassing Walmart as the largest retailer in the world, online or physical.

Best Buy is not in the same league.

Also, Apple appears to be the only company in the world that can get this deal from Amazon. Apple's competitors can't get it. So this seems to be an artificial restriction on competition.

Re: Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads

#58

Post by stefan_ » Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 11:23 PM UTC

StressedDev wrote: post #49

ren_engineer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my question is why hasn't the FBI seized every Amazon warehouse for knowingly selling counterfeit goods? They do this routinely for smaller businesses selling fake stuff

Probably because seizing the entire warehouse is an awful and unjust idea. First, Amazon's warehouse hold merchandise from other companies. Why should they be punished because Amazon or a different company is selling counterfeit goods. Second, do the retailers know they are selling counterfeit products? There is a huge difference between intentionally deceiving people and getting hoodwinked by thieves. For example, i…

They control the listings, they receive and hold the merchandise, they ship it, they deliver it, they take payment, they handle customer complaints, ...

What's the point where we are going to say "it's not good enough to point at the 3rd party with the autogenerated name" and "computers at large"?

Re: Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads

#59

Post by kube-system » Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 11:27 PM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #46

kube-system wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a company controls a large part of a market, regulators give extra scrutiny to any efforts that company may make that harms competition.

You mean 36% of e-commerce and an even smaller portion of all retail?

Yes, 36% (I believe it's actually 37.6%) of e-commerce is a large portion. It is 587% larger than the second place competitor.

Re: Apple asked Amazon to block rival ads

#60

Post by lessbergstein » Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 11:36 PM UTC

Both Apple and Amazon are very important for national security. I wouldn't be surprised if there is more going on here then just preferential treatment.