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New models and developer products

openai.com

51–60 of 561 posts

Re: New models and developer products

#51

Most of the products announced (and the price cuts) appear to be more about increasing lock-in to the OpenAI API platform, which is not surprising given increased competition in the space. The GPTs/GPT Agents and Assistants demos in particular showed that they are a black box within a black box within a black box that you can't port anywhere else. I'm mixed on the presentation and will need to read the fine print on…

It's a good strategy. For me, avoiding the moat means either a big drop in quality and just ending up in somebody elses moat, or a big drop in quality and a lot more money spent. I've looked into it and maybe the most practical end-to-end system for owning my own LLM is to run a couple of 3090s on a consumer motherboard at substantial running cost to keep them up 24/7 and that's not powerful enough to cut it and rather expensive simultaniously. For a bit more expense, you can get more quality and lower running costs and much slower processing from buying a 128gb/192gb apple silicon setup and that's much much much slower than the "Turbo" services that OpenAI offers.

I think the biggest thing pushing me away from OpenAI was they were subsidizing the chat experience much more than the API and this seems to reconcile that quite a bit. Quite simply OpenAI is sweetening the pot here too much for me to really ignore, this is a massively subsdizised service. I honestly don't feel the switching costs in the future will outweigh the benefits I'm getting now.

Re: New models and developer products

#52
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic never even had a day. I said this before in another Anthropic thread but I signed up 6 months ago for API access and they never responded. An employee in that thread apologized and said to try again, did it, week later still nothing. As far as commercial viability, they never had it.

same here. I wonder why they are not opening it up to more devs. Seems strange.

Purely a guess, but having tried to scale services to new customers, it can be a lot harder than it seems, especially if you have to customize anything. Early on, doing a generic one-size-fits-all can be really, really hard, and acquiring those early big customers is important to survival and often requires customizations.

Re: New models and developer products

#55
post #7

That map/travel demo was insane. Trying to find the demo again.

Yep I feel like they solved the problem that Apple never managed to solve with Siri: How to interface it with apps. Seems like this was an LLM-hard problem

My guess is an LLM-based Siri is right around the corner. Apple commonly waits for tech to be proved by others before adopting it, so this would be in-line with standard operating procedures.

Re: New models and developer products

#56
I am very much looking forward to, but also dreading, testing gpt-4-turbo as part of my workflow and projects. The lowered cost and much larger context window are very attractive; however, I cannot be the only one who remembers the difference in output quality and overall perceived capability between gpt-3.5 and gpt-3.5-turbo, combined with the intransparent switching from one model to the other (calling the older, often more capable model "Legacy", making it GPT+ exclusive, trying to pass of gpt-3.5-turbo as a straight upgrade, etc.). If the former had remained available after the latter became dominant, that may not have been a problem in itself, but seeing as gpt-3.5-turbo has fully replaced its precursor (both on the Chat website and via API) and gpt-4 as offered up to this point wasn't a fully perfect replacement for plain gpt-3.5 either, relying on these models as offered by OpenAI has become challenging.

A lot of ink has been spilled about gpt-4 (via the Chat website, but also more recently via API) seeming less capable over the last few months compared to earlier experiences and whilst I still believe that the underlying gpt-4 model can perform at a similar degree to before, I will admit that purely the amount of output one can reliably request from these models has become severely restricted, even when using the API.

In other words, in my limited experience, gpt-4 (via API or especially the Chat website) can perform equally well in tasks and output complexity, but the amount of output one receives seems far more restricted than before, often harming existing use cases and workflows. There appears a greater tendency to include comments ("place this here") even when requesting a specific section of output in full.

Another aspect that results from their lack of transparency is communicating the differences between the Chat Website and API. I understand why they cannot be fully identical in terms of output length and context window (otherwise GPT+ would be an even bigger loss leader), but communicating the Status Quo should not be an unreasonable request in my eyes. Call the model gpt-4-web or something similar to clearly differentiate the Chat Website implementation from gpt-4 and gpt-4-1106 via API (the actual name for gpt-4-turbo at this point in time). As it stands, people like myself have to always add whether the Chat website or API is what our experiences arise from, while people who may only casually experiment with the free Website implementation of gpt-3.5-turbo may have a hard time grasping why these models create such intense interest in those more experienced.

Re: New models and developer products

#57
In the keynote @sama claimed GPT-4-turbo was superior to the older GPT-4. Have any benchmarks or other examples been shown? I am curious to see how much better it is, if it all. I remember when 3.5 got its turbo version there was some controversy on whether it was really better or not.

Re: New models and developer products

#58
A few notes on pricing:

- GPT-4 Turbo vision is much cheaper than I expected. A 768*768 px image costs $0.00765 to input. That's practical to replace more specialized computer vision models for many use-cases.

- ElevenLabs is $0.24 per 1K characters while OpenAI TTS HD is $0.03 per 1K characters. Elevenlabs still has voice copying but for many use-cases it's no longer competitive.

- It appears that there's no additional fee for the 128K context model, as opposed to previous models that charged extra for the longer context window. This is huge.

Re: New models and developer products

#59

Most of the products announced (and the price cuts) appear to be more about increasing lock-in to the OpenAI API platform, which is not surprising given increased competition in the space. The GPTs/GPT Agents and Assistants demos in particular showed that they are a black box within a black box within a black box that you can't port anywhere else. I'm mixed on the presentation and will need to read the fine print on…

I don't understand the lock-in argument here. Yes, if a competitor comes in there will be switching cost as everything is re-learned. However, from a code perspective, it is a function of the key and a relatively small API. New regulations outstanding, what is stoping someone from moving from OpenAI to Anthropic (for example) other than the cost of learning how to effectively utilize Anthropic for your use case?

OpenAI doesn't have some sort of egress feed for your database.

Re: New models and developer products

#60
post #26

The 128k context window GPT-4 Turbo model looks unreal. Seems like Anthropic's day of reckoning is here?

Anthropic never even had a day. I said this before in another Anthropic thread but I signed up 6 months ago for API access and they never responded. An employee in that thread apologized and said to try again, did it, week later still nothing. As far as commercial viability, they never had it.

Yeah i know this wasn't the case for everyone but i got gpt-4 access back in march the next day. Tried Claude and still waiting. Oh well lol.
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