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Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

people.ischool.berkeley.edu

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Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#51

Post by eigenket »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #33
endominus wrote: post #6

From the Github description, a quote: "In a class I taught at Berkeley, I did an experiment where I wrote a simple little program that would let people type either “f” or “d” and would predict which key they were going to push next. It’s actually very easy to write a program that will make the right prediction about 70% of the time. Most people don’t really know how to type randomly. They’ll have too many alternation…

Free will is equivalent to randomness with many (asymptotically infinite) degrees of freedom. Not sure if the experiment tests this. (Pressing a different key or closing the browser tab are also variables in this probability distribution.)

> Free will is equivalent to randomness with many (asymptotically infinite) degrees of freedom.

I don't think this is obviously true. I can make a random number generating device with as many degrees of freedom as you like by producing a bunch of vertically polarised photons and measuring their horizontal polarisation. I don't think anyone would describe this system as having "free will".

Conversely humans with "free will" don't usually behave very randomly. They often have reasoning (good or bad) and are able to explain why they took whatever actions they took.

Free will seems to be qualitatively different to randomness.

Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#52

Post by anon-3988 »

miika wrote: post #22

The question is never if we have free will or not. The question is if we are in a state where free will is available or not. For example, when I’m aware that there is space around myself, then I’m also aware that there are thoughts, feeling in the body, breath etc. In this state, I believe, it’s possible to choose. In this test I can choose the only press the other key and this algorithm doesn’t do so well. Then some…

If I ask you to choose A or B, and let you take as long as you want to make this decision, at the point where you make the decision, you still have no idea why you chose what you chose. It is ultimately mysterious to you and anyone else why you chose what you chose. If you had any reasoning, it is still mysterious why that reasoning caused you to choose what you chose and why it didn't have the opposite effect?

The impetus to choose A or B in this case arises from the dark pool of the mind, sneaks up behind you and you mistakenly identify with this decision. You simply cannot think to think what to think.

Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#53

Post by IIAOPSW »

Will is a tree structure. Things that act due to the design or machinations of known forces are not free will. The computer, sophisticated though it may be, does all it does because the programmer wills it so. The things you are paid to do for your job are not your free will but rather the will of your employer. Whatever compulsory force lies one node above in the cause and effect tree, that's the thing whose will is being exerted. When we can't see any higher than a given node, we are left with a free-floating will (aka a free will). It may not actually be free in a deterministic universe, but since it is impossible to traverse the tree ad infinitum, it is a useful fiction to have a cutoff point and call whatever node you made it to "free".

Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#55

Post by nonrandomstring »

eigenket wrote: post #51
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free will is equivalent to randomness with many (asymptotically infinite) degrees of freedom. Not sure if the experiment tests this. (Pressing a different key or closing the browser tab are also variables in this probability distribution.)

> Free will is equivalent to randomness with many (asymptotically infinite) degrees of freedom. I don't think this is obviously true. I can make a random number generating device with as many degrees of freedom as you like by producing a bunch of vertically polarised photons and measuring their horizontal polarisation. I don't think anyone would describe this system as having "free will". Conversely humans with "free…

> Free will seems to be qualitatively different to randomness.

I was going to suggest reading "The Diceman" by Luke Rhinehart [0].

But then I don't want to do that, because it really messes with some people.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dice_Man

Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#56

Post by sublinear »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #23
omoikane wrote: post #13

The prediction algorithm is actually very straightforward[1]. It's a fun exercise to write a sequence generator specifically to defeat it. Here is a sequence that can get the prediction rate down to 13%: ddddd dfddd dffdd dfdfd ddfff ddfdd fdffd dffdf ddfff fdfdf dfffd ffdff fffff dffff ffddf fffdf dfffd ffdff ffffd ddfff Generated using this Perl script: my %table = (); my $s = "fffff"; for(my $i = 0; $i $table{$s}{…

The creator knew you would do that...

Please elaborate.

Re: Can you use your "free will"? Try your hand

#57

Post by foota »

I wonder... If you don't have access to randomness, e.g., you need to base your choice off some fixed program, and with some limited program length, in theory a perfect observer should be able to guess with certainty your next choices after some time, since there's only a fixed number of possible programs?

Of course this isn't of much practical use...

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