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Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

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Re: Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

#51

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Krssst wrote: post #45
ceeam wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not on Google-made OSes, no. Like most Androids.

Indeed. Living without Android seems mostly feasible however, while living without Windows looks quite difficult (meaning: more jobs require Windows than Android). And Android is not pushing me ads for Chrome, it's basically like older Windows where it's installed but not an annoyance once we installed another browser.

It’s actually quite easy to live without android or windows these days. Of course, you are firmly in an apple world at that point, so pick your poison.

Re: Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

#52

Post by Barrin92 »

hnlmorg wrote: post #50
Barrin92 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll always support user choice and that is the only thing Apple will be forced to allow. It's extremely bizarre to justify vendor lock-in on the basis of popularity. Imagine if Microsoft would prohibit you from using Google search on Microsoft devices and force you to use Bing and anyone would justify this on the basis that Bing is unpopular.

Windows is the dominant desktop OS though. So that would be abusing their market position on the desktop. It’s about locking competitors out via owning the leading market in other parts of the dependant ecosystem. If MS didn’t lead the market in desktop operating systems then it wouldn’t matter what search engine they defaulted too.

I don't see how it hinges on the market share. If Windows had a market share of 30% those 30% would still be better off if they had greater choice. People are locked into operating systems for all kinds of reasons. A lot of people use an operating system because they say, depend on an Office Suite or a piece of music creation software or to play video games. Why should this dictate their browser engine?

Mind you people on Apple systems can still use Safari, people on Windows will always be able to use Edge etc, but there is no coherent argument for not putting more equal choices in front of a user across systems. All these companies make general purpose computing devices, there is no downside for the consumer in having control over them.

To let a company be anti-competitive and lock down a platform, so people have to use their proprietary software rather than being able to run a real version of Firefox or Chrome is completely backwards.

Re: Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

#53

Post by deafpolygon »

hnlmorg wrote: post #49
surgical_fire wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that Mozilla could make the world an objectively better place by being laser-focused in turning Firefox into the best browser possible. Taking away Chrome's marketshare and making a dent in Google's absolute power in the web should be their only goal, instead of whatever they diversified into.

Firefox is already the best browser on the market in my opinion. Containers alone achieves this. The problem is that Mozilla doesn’t own a leading OS. So theyre always going to be an “also ran”. If history has taught us anything, it’s that the only way to succeed in build a successful browser is to build a successful operating system.

> The problem is that Mozilla doesn’t own a leading OS.

And yet Google made Chrome the dominant browser on both Windows AND macOS. How do you explain that?

Re: Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

#54

Post by xctr94 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #37
Terretta wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile we clamor to the EU to force Apple to let Chrome replace Safari on their otherwise vertically integrated iPhone.

I'll always support user choice and that is the only thing Apple will be forced to allow. It's extremely bizarre to justify vendor lock-in on the basis of popularity. Imagine if Microsoft would prohibit you from using Google search on Microsoft devices and force you to use Bing and anyone would justify this on the basis that Bing is unpopular.

I refuse to defend a trillion-dollar company; but Apple doesn’t prevent you from installing other browsers. It prevents installation of other browser engines. You can already use Chrome and Edge on iOS.

Re: Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

#55

Post by pjmlp »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #51
Krssst wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Living without Android seems mostly feasible however, while living without Windows looks quite difficult (meaning: more jobs require Windows than Android). And Android is not pushing me ads for Chrome, it's basically like older Windows where it's installed but not an annoyance once we installed another browser.

It’s actually quite easy to live without android or windows these days. Of course, you are firmly in an apple world at that point, so pick your poison.

Only on countries of high income.

Re: Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

#56

Post by hnlmorg »

Barrin92 wrote: post #52
hnlmorg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows is the dominant desktop OS though. So that would be abusing their market position on the desktop. It’s about locking competitors out via owning the leading market in other parts of the dependant ecosystem. If MS didn’t lead the market in desktop operating systems then it wouldn’t matter what search engine they defaulted too.

I don't see how it hinges on the market share. If Windows had a market share of 30% those 30% would still be better off if they had greater choice. People are locked into operating systems for all kinds of reasons. A lot of people use an operating system because they say, depend on an Office Suite or a piece of music creation software or to play video games. Why should this dictate their browser engine? Mind you peop…

Because it’s about competition.

If you have a 10% market share and you use that 10% market share to expand into other markets then you’re increasing competition.

But if you have a 90% market share, then you’re not simply just expanding into other markets, you’re eliminating competition from those markets.

Imaging you have a birthday cake but you said only your best friend could eat it. That would be unfair to the other guests. But if everyone turned up with their own cakes and offers up slices to other people, it then means everyone gets cake and it doesn’t matter as much who you give your cake too.

Re: Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

#57

Post by hnlmorg »

deafpolygon wrote: post #53
hnlmorg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is already the best browser on the market in my opinion. Containers alone achieves this. The problem is that Mozilla doesn’t own a leading OS. So theyre always going to be an “also ran”. If history has taught us anything, it’s that the only way to succeed in build a successful browser is to build a successful operating system.

> The problem is that Mozilla doesn’t own a leading OS. And yet Google made Chrome the dominant browser on both Windows AND macOS. How do you explain that?

Because Google is still a household brand. Everyone is familiar with Google search, Google Mail, Google Maps, Android, etc.

And Chome came at a time when people were fed up with Internet Explorer. There was a gap in the market when Chrome came along. Remember that Firefox was beating the competition for a period back then too. But Mozilla isn’t a household name like Google. You don’t say “I Mozilled something last night.” Google is such a common name that people literally use it as a verb.

But that all said, if Chome was released today with Edge being where it’s currently at (yes, I know Edge is based on Chromium, but let’s look past that for the sake of this hypothetical), Google would have a harder job gaining market share.

Re: Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

#58

Post by kayxspre »

I use Edge for my work profile and Vivaldi for my casual browsing. Having got an assigned work, I open Edge, only to be greeted with the sidebar that tries to promote the "New Bing" and all the AI stuff. It left me wondered why it was there as it's very distracting. I checked the settings to turn it off, and indeed, the settings show that it was turned off (probably since the very first time it shoved into my face), yet the sidebar still appears. Have to flip the switch to turn it off again for now, but it's terrible to see that it doesn't respect my choice, even more than its (several) attempt to get itself as a default browser.

Re: Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

#59

Post by xtiansimon »

Add to the list strange case of a website app that stopped working on Chrome—Chase Fraud Protection security review.

It was laggy on Chrome (software is updated with auto-update. The cookies were cleared). Still, last three weeks this part of the site only works with Edge.

Re: Every trick Microsoft pulled to make you browse Edge instead of Chrome

#60

Post by OldGuyInTheClub »

Krssst wrote: post #44
OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have tried that. The Outlook365 web interface is worse than the desktop version for searching and many features either don't exist or are clunky to use. Have to pick my poison but poison all the same.

I only ever used the web version and found it okay. I like being able to use extensions against my mails (however they seem to randomize element IDs in the DOM so I cannot use uBO to remove annoyances). Is search fast in the desktop version? That's the main reason I stay with webmails.

I have a lot of imported PSTs that sit in a different section than the main Inbox, Sent, and other folders. Desktop lets me search all items with fewer clicks than Web. The web i/f at least at my shop is noticeably slower than Desktop which itself is no speed demon.
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