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Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

irishtimes.com

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Re: Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

#51

Post by michaelt »

brandonagr2 wrote: post #10
esjeon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess until all autonomous vehicles are fully equipped with real sensors (likely both lidar and radar) so that cars can almost-mechanically stop before foreseeable collisions without worrying about AI hiccups. This is technically possible even now, but it's way too expensive for now.

Why should lidar be a requirement when that's not a requirement for humans to be able to drive? The goal is to reduce traffic fatalities, humans are not reliable, if you say we can't have automation until its 100% perfect, then you are actively choosing to have more traffic fatalities.

Because of worrying about AI hiccups.

99.99% of daytime highway dashcam frames don't include a firetruck stopped in the lane, dealing with an accident.

But let's say, hypothetically, that a self-driving car accelerated into a clearly visible, stationary firetruck in clear daylight. Despite being 99.99% perfect.

Legislators might feel in order to be an above-average driver the vehicle shouldn't hit any clearly visible stationary objects in clear daylight, because the median human driver doesn't do that.

Re: Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

#52

Post by uoaei »

epivosism wrote: post #42
FireBeyond wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the very least Tesla should have a "merge right when appropriate" priority in their Autopilot offering. It seems drivers all over the Bay area have forgotten this basic traffic-mitigating rule too. You expect this from a company that writes software that will intentionally roll through stop signs?!? Or that lets you set parameters on how much to exceed the speed limit by?

I love the european style of driving on the right, but blaming Tesla for not following it in California where doing the opposite is standard seems like going too far. I think Tesla reasonably is trying to match local conditions, and why shouldn't they? Making California drivers not pace each other on 2 lane roads & block all traffic, or making them cruise in the right lane rather than the left when they have the opti…

> in California where doing the opposite is standard

This wasn't true ten years ago.

Re: Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

#53

Post by FireBeyond »

epivosism wrote: post #42
FireBeyond wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the very least Tesla should have a "merge right when appropriate" priority in their Autopilot offering. It seems drivers all over the Bay area have forgotten this basic traffic-mitigating rule too. You expect this from a company that writes software that will intentionally roll through stop signs?!? Or that lets you set parameters on how much to exceed the speed limit by?

I love the european style of driving on the right, but blaming Tesla for not following it in California where doing the opposite is standard seems like going too far. I think Tesla reasonably is trying to match local conditions, and why shouldn't they? Making California drivers not pace each other on 2 lane roads & block all traffic, or making them cruise in the right lane rather than the left when they have the opti…

> is a tough mission to add on top of creating FSD

To be blunt, "sucks to be them". They want to make billions from the technology, there's going to be some tough problems along the way. That doesn't make it incumbent on anyone else to allow, excuse, or otherwise give them a pass.

Re: Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

#54

Post by rtkwe »

natch wrote: post #46
rtkwe wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is just very fancy cruise control but it's still very significant to the whole "will a person ever get in trouble for taking over from the automated system" discussion that they're the only ones taking legal responsibility while the system is active. Everyone else including Tesla puts all the legal weight on you to stay constantly alert and take over for the system.

Don’t worry, Mercedes will also put the legal weight on you by disabling the system well in advance of any potentially risky segments of road. So their promise is essentially PR fakery. Don’t fall for it.

As long as they're not cutting out moments before a crash to shift liability at the last second I don't see the problem. Disabling the system early when it's not sure it can operate safely is way better than not doing that and plowing into the side of a truck because the driver enabled it on a road with un-signaled cross traffic. (When the car could know from map data it's on a road it's not well equipped to handle mind you)

Re: Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

#55

Post by watwut »

foobarian wrote: post #38
watwut wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely, I have never ever done that. I am driving for over 20 years.

How else can you eat while you commute?

I rarely eat while driving and when I do, I eat stuff that can be easily eaten by one hand and quickly (chocolate etc).

I really hope the question was meant to be funny.

Re: Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

#56

Post by foobarian »

watwut wrote: post #55
foobarian wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else can you eat while you commute?

I rarely eat while driving and when I do, I eat stuff that can be easily eaten by one hand and quickly (chocolate etc). I really hope the question was meant to be funny.

Only half-joking. I can eat two handed e.g. a sandwich or something similar while briefly holding the wheel with my knees. It's not a huge hardship especially in slow and predictable rush hour traffic.

Re: Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

#57

Post by watwut »

foobarian wrote: post #56
watwut wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rarely eat while driving and when I do, I eat stuff that can be easily eaten by one hand and quickly (chocolate etc). I really hope the question was meant to be funny.

Only half-joking. I can eat two handed e.g. a sandwich or something similar while briefly holding the wheel with my knees. It's not a huge hardship especially in slow and predictable rush hour traffic.

It is not that I consider it hardship. I consider it distracted driving.

Re: Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

#58

Post by rtkwe »

natch wrote: post #44
rtkwe wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A while, there's only one car maker selling one car to the general public right now who's taking legal liability for crashes while their system is active.

Except that system turns itself off on the slightest hair trigger if it gets any inkling that another car might be present within ten miles.

I haven't seen any video of it actually in use or reviews. Have a link showing that?

Re: Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

#59

Post by Gabrys1 »

sschueller wrote: post #41
vinni2 wrote: post #11

What about all these porn stars who have sex while driving Tesla. They should definitely be guilty of dangerous driving. edit: link to the article about it https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7015229/Elon-Musk-r...

What's the point if you can so easily fake this without any of the safety issues? Hook the car and toe it, remove the toe bar in post, done.

At least in Poland, you cannot be in a car that is being towed (unless it's necessary to "drive" it).

Re: Tesla owner who drove with 'arms folded' cleared of dangerous driving

#60

Post by uoaei »

epivosism wrote: post #42
FireBeyond wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At the very least Tesla should have a "merge right when appropriate" priority in their Autopilot offering. It seems drivers all over the Bay area have forgotten this basic traffic-mitigating rule too. You expect this from a company that writes software that will intentionally roll through stop signs?!? Or that lets you set parameters on how much to exceed the speed limit by?

I love the european style of driving on the right, but blaming Tesla for not following it in California where doing the opposite is standard seems like going too far. I think Tesla reasonably is trying to match local conditions, and why shouldn't they? Making California drivers not pace each other on 2 lane roads & block all traffic, or making them cruise in the right lane rather than the left when they have the opti…

    if (isSafeToMergeRight and not rightLaneTrafficPaceAddsTimeToEstimate):
        mergeRight()
So complicated... the hard part is the first test but that's expected to be part of FSD already. And the second test is a simple state estimation procedure on top of the relatively harder detect-cars function, which also should be part of FSD already. So I'm not sure what you think this suggestion adds in complexity.
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