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Ozone hole goes large again

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Re: Ozone hole goes large again

#51

Post by t0suj4 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #49
t0suj4 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard from a law student in China that the law is a tool to control the masses. Assuming that is true, ignoring the law is simply taking things under control and bribery is the cost of doing business.

>I've heard from a law student in China that the law is a tool to control the masses. // How is that different to other countries? In the UK, for example, the Tory party have been enacting laws to make it difficult to legally protest.

It depends on how the lawmakers see it and how far the enforcers are willing to go.

Not everyone is willing to shoot lead into a large gathering of people the less of them the better.

If you're lucky the judges will overturn the law and keep their jobs.

Re: Ozone hole goes large again

#53

Post by yreg »

brutusborn wrote: post #27
ClassyJacket wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but we are fucked from climate change.

Again I disagree. The worst predictions for climate change are not based on very solid models. There are lots of clever people who are skeptical of the doomerism. As an example, the claim that more people will die from heat waves is correct, but when you compare it to the people who won’t die from cold weather then climate change is a net benefit! And in terms of environmental collapses, things like the health of oce…

What about ocean acidification? That is connected to CO2 in the atmosphere and had a good chance of leading to collapse of marine ecosystems, no?

Re: Ozone hole goes large again

#54

Post by thicknavyrain »

jdiez17 wrote: post #52
throwaway290 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are not tenants they are part of the planet.

The Earth will be just fine without humans.

I find this kind of sentiment a little vacuous. Charitably, we might say "Much of the non-human life on Earth will be just fine without humans" but the kinds of ecological disaster that would wipe us would would take a significant chunk of other life along with it. Beyond that, what value is a floating chunk of rock except for the very fact it sustains conscious life, the only thing capable of valuing it? Humans, and other forms of life, are pretty much entirely what makes Earth worth caring about at all.

Re: Ozone hole goes large again

#55

Post by jokethrowaway »

3seashells wrote: post #39
tastyfreeze wrote: post #30

Wasn't there a story about satellite imagery detecting massive CFC releases in China from expandable foam? Edit: found one... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/23/china-factorie...

China, behind the surface, is very anarchic, bejing can make rules all it wants but the local government beyond surface placation won't honor the spirit and restart production of all kind of stuff. Which is fascinating, cause as soon as party rule is threatened, that very same principle ceases to apply.

The regime exists only because the people believe in the regime. If the people armed themselves and coordinated, they would outnumber policemen and soldiers.

This is true in China, but it's true everywhere else. It's true in the west. If people stop complying we would get way more power and overall reduce inequality between the few rich and powerful and politically connect and you everyday Joe.

For the same principle, Russia could never control Ukraine without support, the romans couldn't control their provinces without local approval.

Re: Ozone hole goes large again

#56

Post by jokethrowaway »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #49
t0suj4 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard from a law student in China that the law is a tool to control the masses. Assuming that is true, ignoring the law is simply taking things under control and bribery is the cost of doing business.

>I've heard from a law student in China that the law is a tool to control the masses. // How is that different to other countries? In the UK, for example, the Tory party have been enacting laws to make it difficult to legally protest.

It's not - we're mostly better than China but the crimes our governments commit against us are of the same type.

They steal our freedom and profits via taxes. Taxes in China are not even that high for european standard, but they do infringe more on their citizens liberty.

On the other side, western societies are doing more of that too, between covid, gdpr, and the incoming cyber resiliance act

Re: Ozone hole goes large again

#57

Post by hardware2win »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #55
3seashells wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China, behind the surface, is very anarchic, bejing can make rules all it wants but the local government beyond surface placation won't honor the spirit and restart production of all kind of stuff. Which is fascinating, cause as soon as party rule is threatened, that very same principle ceases to apply.

The regime exists only because the people believe in the regime. If the people armed themselves and coordinated, they would outnumber policemen and soldiers. This is true in China, but it's true everywhere else. It's true in the west. If people stop complying we would get way more power and overall reduce inequality between the few rich and powerful and politically connect and you everyday Joe. For the same principle…

>If people stop complying we would get way more power and overall reduce inequality between the few rich and powerful and politically connect and you everyday Joe.

I dont believe it

Inequality would be even worse and upward mobility would be reduced, at least in the west.

Re: Ozone hole goes large again

#58

Post by morph123 »

thicknavyrain wrote: post #54
jdiez17 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Earth will be just fine without humans.

I find this kind of sentiment a little vacuous. Charitably, we might say "Much of the non-human life on Earth will be just fine without humans" but the kinds of ecological disaster that would wipe us would would take a significant chunk of other life along with it. Beyond that, what value is a floating chunk of rock except for the very fact it sustains conscious life, the only thing capable of valuing it? Humans, and…

Value is a human concept.

Re: Ozone hole goes large again

#59

Post by dghughes »

There have been a lot of large volume methane releases too methane are much worse ozone damaging molecule compared to CFCs. Plus Siberia and northern regions with melting permafrost are releasing large amounts of methane.

Turkmenistan seems to be the worst for methane emissions from industry. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/06/revealed...

>The variability of the size of the ozone hole is largely determined by the strength of a strong wind band that flows around the Antarctic area.

Who knew water and winds could also damage the ozone layer?!

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