Mmm let me guess. McKinsey came to town?
Did they hire 20000 contractors at crazy rates?
Nokia to axe up to 14,000 jobs to cut costs
51–60 of 137 posts
Re: Nokia to axe up to 14,000 jobs to cut costs
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I thought companies generally rip the bandaid off and do it all very quickly - and have a concrete plan before an announcement In the US yes, and companies are free to ruin the lives of thousands of people overnight in most states thanks to at-will employment. In Europe, where Nokia is based, companies have to actually follow laws. No firing of individuals without cause, mass layoffs outside of bankruptcy have mini…
"companies have to actually follow laws“ What? Nokia won't follow laws in other countries? "No firing of individuals without cause" That's generally the distinction between firing and laying off. Layed off employees generally get unemployment. "7 months until your employment actually terminates" You continue working at a company that you will have to leave? What incentives do you have to keep putting in any effort? D…
Aren't you in a weird limbo for months/years on end where you don't know if your position will be terminated?
Isn't that every day at a job in an At-Will state in the US?
Also if you quit of your own volition while the unions are negotiating you get nothing. If you wait until the unions are done negotiating and get laid off you get several month of severance pay. In fact quitting while layoffs are being discussed has to be among the dumbest financial decision you can make.
Re: Nokia to axe up to 14,000 jobs to cut costs
#53Probably means that folks in Finnish, German, and US offices are out, and in Romanian and Polish offices will receive no rises of their already meager salaries.
Right. It doesn't make sense to lay off a dev in Romania, who's salary is less than a janitor's one in the US office.
Corollary: levels.fyi style dev salaries in the US make no sense
Re: Nokia to axe up to 14,000 jobs to cut costs
#54I can't be the only one that's surprised that Nokia still has 86000 employees. It makes me wonder what they all do.
They went back to the drawing board and got really big in the wirekess communications field, I believe. When I lived as a quasi-new EE grad from the States in Oulu, I actually applied to work for their 6G department, since I quite liked the math around digital communications and it was a huge thing my advisor had hyped up in college. Alas, Northwestern just wasn't impressive enough a school for people in other countries to know about by name, and I never even got a reply... ¯ \ _ ( ツ ) _ / ¯
Re: Nokia to axe up to 14,000 jobs to cut costs
#55I can't be the only one that's surprised that Nokia still has 86000 employees. It makes me wonder what they all do.
I'm so tired of seeing these comments where people assume they can accurately assess how many employees companies are supposed to have ...
I find people that don't read what is written a lot more tiring.
Where did I assume I can accurately assess how many employees Nokia is supposed to have?
Re: Nokia to axe up to 14,000 jobs to cut costs
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What incentives do you have to keep putting in any effort? Your paycheck? You can still be fired on the spot if you are not doing your job. Though it might require a warning depending on the jurisdiction. > Aren't you in a weird limbo for months/years on end where you don't know if your position will be terminated? At least in Finland the legal requirement for the negotiations is 2 weeks and usually they take exact…
"and usually they take exactly that long" Then I guess it's unrelated to the two year long firing that's been announced
Yeah term of notice is a different thing which you can work around of with severance packages.
Terms of notice in Finland change a bit based on position/field but in general (might be off by a year here an there but in general 6 months is the longest after 10 or 12 years depending on the position/field)
After probationary period 2 weeks, after 1 years 1 month, after 4 years 2 months, after 8 years 4 months and after 12 years 6 months. (these also apply in the other direction when you are quitting but with different numbers)
Also something telling about the speed of these negotiations this the 3rd round this year for Nokia in Finland.
Also this is just for Finland. Pretty much every country in the EU has their own rules when it comes to large scale layoffs. EU pretty much just says "you have to try and negotiate with the workers/unions" but that is all.
Re: Nokia to axe up to 14,000 jobs to cut costs
#57When I was looking for a 5G router Nokia's FastMile product came up, but when looking for pricing info it had none. Not even any info on where you can get one (unlocked, not from a Mobile Network) So I bought a Huawei one from Amazon.
I suppose Nokia is more operator-oriented than individual customers. It takes additional resources to maintain helpdesk and support - the operators are doing this for them.
Re: Nokia to axe up to 14,000 jobs to cut costs
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I thought companies generally rip the bandaid off and do it all very quickly - and have a concrete plan before an announcement In the US yes, and companies are free to ruin the lives of thousands of people overnight in most states thanks to at-will employment. In Europe, where Nokia is based, companies have to actually follow laws. No firing of individuals without cause, mass layoffs outside of bankruptcy have mini…
"companies have to actually follow laws“ What? Nokia won't follow laws in other countries? "No firing of individuals without cause" That's generally the distinction between firing and laying off. Layed off employees generally get unemployment. "7 months until your employment actually terminates" You continue working at a company that you will have to leave? What incentives do you have to keep putting in any effort? D…
> You continue working at a company that you will have to leave? What incentives do you have to keep putting in any effort? Doesn't this lead to massive amount of corporate theft? In the US you are typically "shown the door" when your employment is terminated to minimize the possibility of disgruntled ex-employees taking corporate IP with them.
If employers fear that, they can do something that's called "Freistellung" in Germany - basically, employees don't have to work any more but still get paid just the same until the employment contract expires.
Re: Nokia to axe up to 14,000 jobs to cut costs
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
While the brand name for phones still exists, it's no longer held by the corporation now called "Nokia" The corporation now called "Nokia" still owns the brand name "Nokia" for phones, but is licensing it to HMD Global, a Finnish mobile phone company started by ex-Nokia people, but largely financed by Foxconn.
I use an XR20 as a daily phone and it's great. No crapware. Lots of OS updates.
No crapware
Other than sending your data to China...
https://www.engadget.com/2019-03-23-nokia-explains-phone-dat...
Re: Nokia to axe up to 14,000 jobs to cut costs
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right. It doesn't make sense to lay off a dev in Romania, who's salary is less than a janitor's one in the US office.
Corollary: levels.fyi style dev salaries in the US make no sense
Asking in Europe anything higher than 60% of what levels.fyi claims for any publicly traded company guarantees not receiving an offer. Funny because our public services and healthcare are the same dysfunctional as in US, only in different ways.