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EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

cyberlaw.stanford.edu

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Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#51

Post by Moldoteck »

mrtksn wrote: post #28
roenxi wrote: post #2

> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spain It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.

EU is a wide range of countries with very wide range of expectations on anything so all generalizations are wrong. EU’s function is to create a mechanism to find a common ground but that’s very hard so that’s why EU is has made a name for being slow and ineffective. Spain and Switzerland or Sweden and Italy would have very, very different understanding on what the state should be able to do and how much involvement t…

fiy, switzerland is not in eu

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#52

Post by rdm_blackhole »

rollulus wrote: post #11

Initiatives like Chat Control makes me pessimistic. They keep on coming in all sort of variations and we defend. Given enough of such iterations, at some point though they’ll eventually be lucky and god knows how long it will take to revert things. And what I don’t get is that this sort of proposed legislation is more than Stasi could've ever wished. And yet it’s openly discussed as if it’s good idea. And note that “…

The worst part of Chat Control is that they know this will be a privacy nightmare, but get this, some people most likely in the inner circles of the EU elites will have exemptions so that it doesn't breach their own security or confidentiality.

Rules for thee not for me.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#53

Post by mrtksn »

Moldoteck wrote: post #51
mrtksn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is a wide range of countries with very wide range of expectations on anything so all generalizations are wrong. EU’s function is to create a mechanism to find a common ground but that’s very hard so that’s why EU is has made a name for being slow and ineffective. Spain and Switzerland or Sweden and Italy would have very, very different understanding on what the state should be able to do and how much involvement t…

fiy, switzerland is not in eu

Sure, I'm giving it as an example of the extremes of the European mindset. IMHO, it would have been better to have Switzerland not only as a country that follows that EU laws as being in the single market but also contribute into regulating it.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#54

Post by mnw21cam »

hcks wrote: post #33
maccard wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU don't have a monopoly on dumb laws. > The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence. Lots of us think that the world would be better if tech companies didn't play so fast and loose with our data, and were better regulated.

I wish euros could explain to me why they speak of "their data" as if that was their souls

I have one answer for that if the asker is based in the US:

I see Americans going on and on about denying warrantless searches of their house and car. It's everywhere. Assert your rights, don't consent to a search, remain silent, don't talk to the police. That position is logically inconsistent with then letting every random company you ever have any vague dealings with (like loading their web page) deeply investigate your life in excruciating detail. If you're arguing against the first of these, you should be arguing against the latter too.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#55

Post by anovikov »

rollulus wrote: post #11

Initiatives like Chat Control makes me pessimistic. They keep on coming in all sort of variations and we defend. Given enough of such iterations, at some point though they’ll eventually be lucky and god knows how long it will take to revert things. And what I don’t get is that this sort of proposed legislation is more than Stasi could've ever wished. And yet it’s openly discussed as if it’s good idea. And note that “…

But well, we all know that in the end this law will not be obeyed anyway? Everyone will blatantly violate it. It will only be used to punish political "wrongdoers" (say the social network that refuses to mute opposition to the ruling party).

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#56

Post by HHC-Hunter »

mrtksn wrote: post #39
rollulus wrote: post #11

Initiatives like Chat Control makes me pessimistic. They keep on coming in all sort of variations and we defend. Given enough of such iterations, at some point though they’ll eventually be lucky and god knows how long it will take to revert things. And what I don’t get is that this sort of proposed legislation is more than Stasi could've ever wished. And yet it’s openly discussed as if it’s good idea. And note that “…

>It freaks me out to the point that I rather have my country leave the EU. What makes you think that your country’s politicians don’t want that but some people in Brussels are forcing it? Those people in Brussels are just people from all the countries, including yours. You also vote them in. The desire of governments controlling the population is universal.

Eh, while I agree with the comments around desire. I think it compounds the bigger the governing body. Look at the five eyes for example.

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#57

Post by mannerheim »

ko27 wrote: post #38
rollulus wrote: post #11

Initiatives like Chat Control makes me pessimistic. They keep on coming in all sort of variations and we defend. Given enough of such iterations, at some point though they’ll eventually be lucky and god knows how long it will take to revert things. And what I don’t get is that this sort of proposed legislation is more than Stasi could've ever wished. And yet it’s openly discussed as if it’s good idea. And note that “…

You should be glad EU exists not wishing to leave it. More than half of countries support this kind of control, and yet it probably won't pass because of a minority of countries. Seems like EU will actually end up preventing this from spreading across the continent.

Does the law require unanimity, or just a majority? This page[0] seems to suggest only a majority is necessary, but I can't find anything else to back that up; but I suppose we'll find out in a week or two.

[0]: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/chat-control-2-0-eu-governm...

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#58

Post by mannerheim »

mrtksn wrote: post #39
rollulus wrote: post #11

Initiatives like Chat Control makes me pessimistic. They keep on coming in all sort of variations and we defend. Given enough of such iterations, at some point though they’ll eventually be lucky and god knows how long it will take to revert things. And what I don’t get is that this sort of proposed legislation is more than Stasi could've ever wished. And yet it’s openly discussed as if it’s good idea. And note that “…

>It freaks me out to the point that I rather have my country leave the EU. What makes you think that your country’s politicians don’t want that but some people in Brussels are forcing it? Those people in Brussels are just people from all the countries, including yours. You also vote them in. The desire of governments controlling the population is universal.

Because some of the governments in TFA have given positions opposing it?

Re: EU member states still cannot agree about end-to-end encryption

#59

Post by miohtama »

fer wrote: post #10
roenxi wrote: post #2

> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spain It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.

Spain has been traditionally and particularly idiotic about tech legislation. Some examples: - There was (and is) a fee on every CD-R, DVD-R, BR-R, hard drive, SSD, printer... as a "just in case it happens to store/copy copyright-protected material at some point ever" fee [0]. - They forced link aggregators to pay newspapers/sites for linking to their content, even just using their tags. [1]. So such insane statement…

Spain, inheriting Franco's legacy, likes their own secret internal police and abuse of power. For exampel, Madrid was using Pegasus spyware to spy Catalonian politicians and separatists

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/catalonia-ban...

From this background, it's more understandable they want to all possible methods to spy their own citizens.

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