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Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

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Re: Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

#51
> By forcing the user to decide whether they trust the actual domain where the ID token will be sent, and not displaying any sort of logo which can be faked, security is improved.

Hilarious.

Look, security UI is hard. Like, stumps experts hard. Like, they've been working at it for decades, trying to educate the population, hard.

I appreciate the will and the effort (as someone looking for their goldilocks OIDC proxy,) but this claim is a bit strong.

Re: Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

#52

> By forcing the user to decide whether they trust the actual domain where the ID token will be sent, and not displaying any sort of logo which can be faked, security is improved. Hilarious. Look, security UI is hard . Like, stumps experts hard . Like, they've been working at it for decades, trying to educate the population, hard . I appreciate the will and the effort (as someone looking for their goldilocks OIDC pro…

I agree the wording is too strong here. That said, did you read about the phishing exploit I linked in the readme?

Re: Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

#53
post #49

Using email magic links as authentication mechanism is not a great choice in my opinion as email is not a very secure protocol if you think about the default smtp security guarantees and man-in-the-middle interception, either on the smtp or on the network level if servers communicate unencrypted.

If you believe email to be the weakest link in the chain, then you have to get rid of email password resets too and use reset codes instead. Lose your codes, lose your account.

This. As sad as it is, email is the defacto identity on the internet. Every system I'm aware of falls back on email and/or phone numbers for recovery.

Re: Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

#54
post #49

Using email magic links as authentication mechanism is not a great choice in my opinion as email is not a very secure protocol if you think about the default smtp security guarantees and man-in-the-middle interception, either on the smtp or on the network level if servers communicate unencrypted.

If you believe email to be the weakest link in the chain, then you have to get rid of email password resets too and use reset codes instead. Lose your codes, lose your account.

You could let users use end to end encrypted protocols for it (like signal, telegram or supposedly whatsapp)

Re: Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

#55

> By forcing the user to decide whether they trust the actual domain where the ID token will be sent, and not displaying any sort of logo which can be faked, security is improved. Hilarious. Look, security UI is hard . Like, stumps experts hard . Like, they've been working at it for decades, trying to educate the population, hard . I appreciate the will and the effort (as someone looking for their goldilocks OIDC pro…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

#56
post #49

Using email magic links as authentication mechanism is not a great choice in my opinion as email is not a very secure protocol if you think about the default smtp security guarantees and man-in-the-middle interception, either on the smtp or on the network level if servers communicate unencrypted.

If you believe email to be the weakest link in the chain, then you have to get rid of email password resets too and use reset codes instead. Lose your codes, lose your account.

With these servers/services you can usually chain to another identity source (e.g. ldap directory+kerberos) so that would fall to the origin identity service. But even if you don't chain it the owner of OIDC provider will usually provide an administrator role and integration system accounts that can be used as an out of band sort of user account recovery mechanism.

Re: Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

#57

Ohh, looks extremely promising, I've been after something with a bit more flexibility than Dex while not being Keycloak/Java etc, an LDAP backend would be awesome as well though (another thing thats lacking is a simple ldap server, perhaps with sql as db, openldap is excessive and glauth isn't there)

I’ve found running Samba as a Domain Controller pretty straightforward for this exact use case.

Re: Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

#58
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you believe email to be the weakest link in the chain, then you have to get rid of email password resets too and use reset codes instead. Lose your codes, lose your account.

This. As sad as it is, email is the defacto identity on the internet. Every system I'm aware of falls back on email and/or phone numbers for recovery.

just because email is often the defacto identity on the internet doesn't make it a good idea (bandwagon fallacy). i don't consider email tokens to be a serious form of authentication. unless you send the user their authentication secret with data encrypted by the user's public key, i strongly recommend against any use of email-based authentication.

* there are a huge number of middlemen in emailing that you have to trust. the sending email provider, the receiving email provider, ISP, email client, the device the client resides on. and everyone else in between. * unless you're just hosting an email server on your local network, starting up an email server that can successfully get its messages across the internet to your intended recipient is an extremely high barrier.

email is an extremely error-prone protocol. there's lots of reasons that government/health organizations don't send you personal private information by email and instead send you an email that says to come log into their secure platform to view the private information.

Re: Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

#59
post #9

Ohh, looks extremely promising, I've been after something with a bit more flexibility than Dex while not being Keycloak/Java etc, an LDAP backend would be awesome as well though (another thing thats lacking is a simple ldap server, perhaps with sql as db, openldap is excessive and glauth isn't there)

What's wrong with glauth? I forked it so I could build in the /etc/passwd support and it's been working great.

Like raw /etc/passwd support or passwd support via PAM? Should always use PAM over reading passwd/shadow directly

Re: Show HN: Obligator – An OpenID Connect server for self-hosters

#60
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. As sad as it is, email is the defacto identity on the internet. Every system I'm aware of falls back on email and/or phone numbers for recovery.

just because email is often the defacto identity on the internet doesn't make it a good idea (bandwagon fallacy). i don't consider email tokens to be a serious form of authentication. unless you send the user their authentication secret with data encrypted by the user's public key, i strongly recommend against any use of email-based authentication. * there are a huge number of middlemen in emailing that you have to t…

There are mitigations for these security issues. The most important is that you only email the user a random code which is bound to the browser login attempt session. The user is required to enter the code they received in that session. This removes the need to trust any of the parties you listed.
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