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Advice for Prospective PhD Students

gonzales.science

51–60 of 97 posts

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#51

Dear Prospective PhD Student, Pay careful attention to the optics of this advice. It is addressing how you can best serve your PI. Your goals and aspirations are not addressed. It is advice on how to land a job, but does not address why you should want the job, or if it is a good fit for you. Perhaps you are a good fit for the academic life. But seek out more advice on what the job of Prospective PhD Student is. Seek…

The question then becomes who do you even trust for advice? I always said never ask a first or second year PhD student lol.

You trust no one, and, at the same time, everyone. Determining what you are getting yourself into, based on data, not your imagination of the jobs based upon your undergrad experience, should be your first research project. If you aren't up for doing that research, evaluating the data you gather, and seeing the bias in the data, a research position probably not a good fit.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#52

If you live in the US, have the ability to work in the US, and have a stem degree, the opportunity cost of a PhD is just way too high, many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Technically, one could do the PhD in the UK where PhD is 3 years, to minimize that opportunity cost, but not by much.

You should not get a PhD for the money. That's always been the case. It's a research degree. If it will open doors for the type of work you want to do, that's the only time it's worth it. Traditionally, the reason to get a PhD was that it was the only way to get an academic job. In 2023, I don't recommend academic employment. Sadly, it's just another type of employment today. I started my first academic job in 2002 a…

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Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#53
post #26

Since it seems just about everybody who's been in or around a PhD program agrees it's a miserable institution with low chances of satisfaction, I will continue to follow the advice that it is not for me. However, are there alternative paths to a research career? I really enjoyed being in an academic environment in undergrad and dream of working on AI/ML research in some capacity, but I'm a total outsider.

> it seems just about everybody who's been in or around a PhD program agrees it's a miserable institution

I disagree, quite strongly in fact. But my experience is not with US PhD programs, which is what discussions here often center upon.

As for working on research outside of pursuing a PhD: one option is to become a scientific programmer. Typically, you'd work on helping to execute the research, without the pressures of having to publish.

Of course, your "clients" do have that pressure, but your job typically is to Make It Happen, explain why it can't, and find crafty workarounds to Make It Sorta Happen Anyway.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#54
> Non-academic jobs and experience - should I include it?

> I am a huge supporter of two things not related to research and education: having a job while an undergraduate or showing a substantial dedication to an organization.

Sadly, this is a very ageist perspective, that I think is very common in academia. This advice is specifically geared towards undergrads who are applying to PhD programs without stating so. It's fine to tailor your advice to certain audiences (in fact the post says it's the author's perspective), but at least state who the intended audience is. I think the reason this ageist persepctive is common in academia is two-fold:

1) Many academics came straight from undergrad (or maybe had a one/two year gap), so they reflect their personal background as indicative of the path others will take to academia. 2) Older students typically have significantly higher self-esteem and understand their worth. They've potentially achieved success outside of academia where their talents were appreciated. It's much harder to steer such students to eschew their self-worth.

I speak from personal experience here. I started my PhD program at 35 after a successful industry career where I was unhappy with the type of work I was doing. I realized after a terrible interview experience at OpenAI that a PhD was the only way to pursue my interests in the burgeoning AI/ML/NLP field. Luckily, I made it into a pretty good PhD program that I'm happy with. I now conduct research melding LLMs with video games an interest I've held since the 90s playing CRPGs (back then I didn't have a specific technology in mind, just the idea of an "AI narrator").

If I had to give advice to PhD students, it's to know your worth. The fact that you made it into a PhD program is not a fluke. Imposter syndrome is rampant and many advisors take advantage of this, either explicitly or implicitly without realizing it.

I came from the video game industry, so I knew crunch times, but my first year as a PhD student was exceedingly brutal. To get my first paper out, I spent three weeks working 100 hours a week. I walked out of the lab the day before the paper deadline and nearly quite my PhD program. I just thought nothing is worth this stress.

If my wife didn't take care of everything else during that time, I couldn't have done it. During that exact same time, I was taking classes. I had a three week project that coincided with my paper deadline. I didn't start the class project until the day after it was due (you lost 10% of your grade per day late). Having industry experience helped tremendously here: I was already quite familiar with distributed systems having been the lead engineer on a (never released) MMORTS.

Don't do this to yourself. It's not worth it. At least in CS, deadlines for conferences are pretty arbitrary. Good research doesn't fit into fixed timelines.

As an aside, I don't blame my advisor for my stressful first year. He became a professor the same year I started my PhD. He didn't know any better and just assumed I was managing my time well while getting my work done. We had a good talk after the deadline and he's been absolutely great since. That's why I say, sometimes it might happen out of pure ignorance of the system. No one teaches you how to be a good advisor while you're getting a PhD. You're assumed to learn that once you become a professor.

Though there are those who DO take advantange knowingly. There's a professor in our department who is an absolute nightmare and for each candidate weekend when new prospective students are deciding on programs, all the current CS PhD students actively warn them away from working with this individual. They quite literally work people to the brink of death at times, where people have been hospitalized for exhaustion, and the professor even contacted them to do work while they were in the hospital! Though, considering the one suicide in their lab, it's debatable if "brink of death" goes far enough.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#55

My advice is find a PhD you want in Norway or the Netherlands. They have programs with competitive research groups, salaries that will get you a quality of life you will appreciate, they will end in 3-4 years, and they have money to pay for you to go to conferences, etc without you having to fight for it from your adviser. Everywhere else sucks. This comment is based on my experience working as a scientist in academi…

Add Luxembourg and Switzerland to that list - at least EPFL and ETH. It's so unbelievably better to be at an institute where travelling within Europe is simply not a budgetary problem at all.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#56
post #4

Does it ever make sense to do graduate school just to get by? If you’re desperate for work, does the stipend ever cover the cost of living, at least enough to spend all your time in the library?

Just come to Norway. As a PhD student you're actually a full time "federal" employee with pension benefits, you're entitled to sick leave, parental leave, etc. You have 5 weeks of paid holidays per year. Your starting salary is $49k per year, which is decent - about the same level as a nurse or a teacher.

To be clear: if you're a woman who move here with your partner for a PhD, and you get pregnant during your PhD, you will be entitled to 9 months of fully paid maternity leave, plus your planned dissertation date will get postponed by 9 months, no questions asked. You can even do this twice if you're "efficient". Kindergarten is quite cheap at around $320 per month. As a man, I had one kid before starting my PhD and the second about halfway through, then I got 10 days leave just after the birth, and 3 months leave from our daughter was 9 to 12 months.

There are several bona fide unions you can join as a PhD student, you have a relatively well functioning HR system that will help quite a bit against toxic PIs. You will have annual "evaluation talks" with a professor other than your supervisor, where you can voice any concerns you might have. The PhD programme duration is 3 years, maybe some people do an additional few months, but I've never heard of someone doing more than 4.

It's still hard work though, there is supposed to be blood, sweat and tears. But it should be because sciencce is hard, not because you are living in poverty or because you have to postpone starting a family until you are in your fourties.

For some reason we get a lot of candidates applying from Europe and Asia, but almost nobody from North America, and I don't see why.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#57
post #4

Does it ever make sense to do graduate school just to get by? If you’re desperate for work, does the stipend ever cover the cost of living, at least enough to spend all your time in the library?

Starting salary for Dutch PhD students is roughly median national income. So: yes, easily.

Basically, it's a job at MSc. level and you're paid (somewhat) close to market rate for that.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What industry has a heavy concentration of PhD except academia?

Any job that is highly research oriented is going to appreciate a Ph.D. Whether it becomes a practical requirement, or formal requirement, would depend. If it's a high paid position, in a small research group, of an established field, then Ph.D.s are likely to be very important. If its a position in a large research group in a new and fast changing field, then its likely to be more open to anyone with unusual or inte…

That's true in biology, chemistry, and physical sciences, but less true in computer science.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#59
post #26

Since it seems just about everybody who's been in or around a PhD program agrees it's a miserable institution with low chances of satisfaction, I will continue to follow the advice that it is not for me. However, are there alternative paths to a research career? I really enjoyed being in an academic environment in undergrad and dream of working on AI/ML research in some capacity, but I'm a total outsider.

There are some independent research organizations out there now that one could condider, like invisible college, astera, and arcadia.

Re: Advice for Prospective PhD Students

#60

Dear Prospective PhD Student, Pay careful attention to the optics of this advice. It is addressing how you can best serve your PI. Your goals and aspirations are not addressed. It is advice on how to land a job, but does not address why you should want the job, or if it is a good fit for you. Perhaps you are a good fit for the academic life. But seek out more advice on what the job of Prospective PhD Student is. Seek…

The question then becomes who do you even trust for advice? I always said never ask a first or second year PhD student lol.

Only take advice from people with whom you'd be willing to switch places.
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