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Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

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Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#51

Post by jabart »

jcrites wrote: post #20

> To add yet another protection, moving forward, we’ll enforce a clear spam rate threshold that senders must stay under to ensure Gmail recipients aren’t bombarded with unwanted messages. This is an industry first, and as a result, you should see even less spam in your inbox. How is this an industry first? Every large receiving domain has had thresholds that they expect senders to stay under regarding the number of m…

Gmail doesn't provide the raw FBL (Feedback loop) data. It's only available in Google Postmaster which has an API for domains you have already setup and have to web scrape to set new domains. Validity took over FBL for a lot of providers and just recently announced you will only get statistics or pay a yearly fee to get the raw FBL data.

I also handle support for an email marketing platform. Users 100% will mark an email as spam then ask that company why they stopped receiving emails. Some will even use the unsubscribe link, write that they receive too many emails, then email asking why they stopped receiving email. It's an imperfect system.

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#52

Post by jeffbee »

lucb1e wrote: post #5
TulliusCicero wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On desktop web gmail there's often a button at the top within gmail's UI to unsubscribe, it acts as a shortcut.

Google manually creates these for large senders, this is not available to just anyone. There is a standard for this called list-unsubscribe (RFC 8058), but adding the header has no purpose. I have not been able to find an email client that uses the header: Thunderbird, FairEmail, Gmail, Hotmail, and I'm not sure if I asked someone to test it in Outlook but I think so. It is recommended to add the header for lowering…

You obviously have some kind of axe to grind specifically about List-Unsubscribe but you don't understand how Google implements it. Gmail does support this header, but only for senders with high reputation. If a sender has poor reputation, the support for List-Unsubscribe isn't visible to the user for that message.

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#53

Post by gcarvalho »

dpifke wrote: post #46
SamuelAdams wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From googles source: > Enable easy unsubscription: You shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to stop receiving unwanted messages from a particular email sender. It should take one click. So we’re requiring that large senders give Gmail recipients the ability to unsubscribe from commercial email in one click, and that they process unsubscription requests within two days. We’ve built these requirements on open standards…

One-click unsubscribe (no action beyond "visiting a single internet web page") is required under U.S. law: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-I/subchapter-C... It's illegal to require users to sign in with a username and password, or click a link in a confirmation email, etc.

Anecdotal, but I feel like I’ve started getting considerably more spam once I started clicking “unsubscribe” (in lists that I have never signed up for in the first place).

Now I don’t bother anymore and just report as spam without “unsubscribing” (or “confirming as valid email” it feels like).

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#54

Post by dpifke »

dharmab wrote: post #48
dpifke wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One-click unsubscribe (no action beyond "visiting a single internet web page") is required under U.S. law: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-I/subchapter-C... It's illegal to require users to sign in with a username and password, or click a link in a confirmation email, etc.

Under that law your unsubscribe link may be a link to a web form when the user enters their address and preferences and clicks a submit button (i.e. multiple clicks)

You're right, it appears Google's new policy is to make the List-Unsubscribe header mandatory, and require certain semantics[0] for the URL it contains, so that they can issue unsubscribe requests on behalf of users in an automated fashion: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#subscriptions

(This wasn't immediately clear to me from the original link or the Google blog post.)

[0]: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8058

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#55

Post by hfjjbf »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #14

So the short version is that Google is requiring senders of more than 5,000 messages per day to have DKIM and SPF configured, as well as one-click unsubscribe. This is excellent to see. Many email providers have made this easy to set up, but many admins don’t go through the extra steps because “it adds complexity” or some other lazy excuse. I think the final criteria, “don’t send spammy messages” will be harder to co…

[dead]

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#56

Post by dpifke »

gcarvalho wrote: post #53
dpifke wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One-click unsubscribe (no action beyond "visiting a single internet web page") is required under U.S. law: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-I/subchapter-C... It's illegal to require users to sign in with a username and password, or click a link in a confirmation email, etc.

Anecdotal, but I feel like I’ve started getting considerably more spam once I started clicking “unsubscribe” (in lists that I have never signed up for in the first place). Now I don’t bother anymore and just report as spam without “unsubscribing” (or “confirming as valid email” it feels like).

Depends on the sender. Using fake opt-out links to build lists of verified addresses is a trick almost as old as spam itself. But services like SendGrid actually honor unsubscribes, and I believe monitor the unsubscribe rates of their customers to catch those buying lists.

I'm not a Gmail user, but doesn't Google click the link in the List-Unsubscribe header for you when you mark as spam? The help article linked from the Google blog post implies they do (or they will): https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#subscriptions

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#57

Post by gcarvalho »

dpifke wrote: post #56
gcarvalho wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, but I feel like I’ve started getting considerably more spam once I started clicking “unsubscribe” (in lists that I have never signed up for in the first place). Now I don’t bother anymore and just report as spam without “unsubscribing” (or “confirming as valid email” it feels like).

Depends on the sender. Using fake opt-out links to build lists of verified addresses is a trick almost as old as spam itself. But services like SendGrid actually honor unsubscribes, and I believe monitor the unsubscribe rates of their customers to catch those buying lists. I'm not a Gmail user, but doesn't Google click the link in the List-Unsubscribe header for you when you mark as spam? The help article linked from…

It prompts you, I believe — “report spam and unsubscribe” or just “report spam”. I never clicked the links from those spammy emails directly but used to accept gmail’s prompt.

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#58

Post by gwbas1c »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #41
malfist wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your characterization of the spam flagging and that people need to learn how to use it. If you made it hard for me to unsubscribe, ignore my unsubscribe request, or start spamming me because I did some other business with you and you think that gives you the right to send me marketing emails, I am absolutely clicking that spam button, and I am not wrong. There is a low bar for what constites spam.

I find that I don’t mind _bulk emails_ I mind having a high volume of emails in my inbox. I’ve gotten a lot of value over the years by having marketing emails in my archive (price history, etc). What I wish gmail did was come up with a really easy system for automatically setting up a “tag and skip inbox” filter for emails.

> What I wish gmail did was come up with a really easy system for automatically setting up a “tag and skip inbox” filter for emails.

They do. It's the whole reason why I use gmail.

When I'm looking at an email that I want to filter, I hit the hamburger menu and select "filter emails like this."

There's also these instructions: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6579?hl=en

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#59

Post by gwbas1c »

lucb1e wrote: post #22
malfist wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your characterization of the spam flagging and that people need to learn how to use it. If you made it hard for me to unsubscribe, ignore my unsubscribe request, or start spamming me because I did some other business with you and you think that gives you the right to send me marketing emails, I am absolutely clicking that spam button, and I am not wrong. There is a low bar for what constites spam.

Oh sure, if it's hard to unsubscribe then I will totally use anti-spam mechanisms to block that as well. I am talking about the case where people engage the spam button for email that they (1) can unsubscribe from using the standard one-click unsubscribe link at the bottom of the email, and (2) have either explicitly signed up for or that is otherwise from a legitimate sender that complies with your local laws and wi…

> or that is otherwise from a legitimate sender that complies with your local laws and will honor the unsubscription.

I think your (luvb1e's) issue is that you don't understand the fundamental definition of SPAM:

SPAM is anything that the sender (not the recipient) defines as SPAM.

For example, a few years ago I bought something from L. L. Bean. In addition to my order confirmation, shipping confirmation, thank you email, surveys, ect, they also automatically put me on their daily email flyer.

All of these emails were legal. Some of the emails were in the "grey area" between legit email and SPAM. The daily email flyer that I never signed up for: 100% SPAM. (And 100% legal.)

Remember: It's my inbox, so I define what I consider SPAM to be SPAM. L. L. Bean can't twist the definition of SPAM so that their SPAM is really something else, and then blame me for hitting the SPAM button.

Re: Google announces plan to make Gmail “less spammy”: A checklist to help

#60

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

gwbas1c wrote: post #58
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that I don’t mind _bulk emails_ I mind having a high volume of emails in my inbox. I’ve gotten a lot of value over the years by having marketing emails in my archive (price history, etc). What I wish gmail did was come up with a really easy system for automatically setting up a “tag and skip inbox” filter for emails.

> What I wish gmail did was come up with a really easy system for automatically setting up a “tag and skip inbox” filter for emails. They do. It's the whole reason why I use gmail. When I'm looking at an email that I want to filter, I hit the hamburger menu and select "filter emails like this." There's also these instructions: https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6579?hl=en

Yeah, I use that too, but it’s hidden and still a lot harder than “flag as spam”.
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