Earlier quoted context omitted.
It wouldn’t be the same behavior, though. No one is able to really come up with a good explanation of how Niemann cheated in a game where he was being watched by a crowd of people. Hence the sex toy theory; one has to come up with some outlandish guesses to make it work. Cheating on an online chess game is a completely different beast. It would be like if a team was losing to the Patriots, and they walked away and cl…
No it would be like making the same exact accusation, as if the Patriots got caught using steroids two years before and now two years later you suspect they are still using them.
Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann denies using vibrating sex toy to cheat
51–60 of 71 posts
Re: Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann denies using vibrating sex toy to cheat
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think the accusation was so disingenuous and in poor taste It was literally a joke from Eric Hansen (Chessbrah). The media: "hey, anal beads, that's good. Let's run with it."
Wasn't it originally from a random chatter in Eric's Twitch stream, not GM Hansen himself?
Re: Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann denies using vibrating sex toy to cheat
#53I never believed this for a moment, and I think the accusation was so disingenuous and in poor taste that it borders on obnoxiousness. Carlsen has an ego problem. To be fair, Neimann has been accused of cheating when he was a teenager, but based on the world champions behavior I'm willing to give Neimann the benefit of the doubt. Magnus got beat and he couldn't handle it.
Neimann openly admitted to cheating on chess.com matches (and chess.com released a lot of evidence to the same end). It's not a boogieman.
Re: Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann denies using vibrating sex toy to cheat
#54He's a confirmed cheater. We just don't know for sure that he cheated in that match in particular. I'm used to games where if someone is caught cheating they're just banned from competitive aspects of the activity going forward. giving them a chance to get better at hiding their cheating doesn't work for games like chess. He should just go to a different pursuit.
> He's a confirmed cheater. No; it's confirmed that he has cheated. If you believe that this is a quality of a person that cannot be changed or rehabilitated, that is fine, but you should take ownership of it and not attempt to represent it as a fact.
* The confirmed cheater is more likely to cheat in the future than a normal player, which in my mind puts an asterisk next to all of their future accomplishments.
* The act of cheating is such a massive act of disrespect towards their competitors, the competition organizers, and the game itself that it merits such a long term loss of privilege.
* Every game has rules. It seems fair to let players and organizers of the game decide on consequences for breaking the rules.
* If the punishment for being caught cheating is low, you are changing the risk/reward ratio for cheating in favor of more cheating. This is especially true in a competition like chess where money is on the line.
Re: Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann denies using vibrating sex toy to cheat
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
When you said "at age 16" it made me feel the guy was 40 or so and it was long ago. Not that the cheating took place only two year before the game against Carlsen, which is close enough to keep the same behaviors..
It wouldn’t be the same behavior, though. No one is able to really come up with a good explanation of how Niemann cheated in a game where he was being watched by a crowd of people. Hence the sex toy theory; one has to come up with some outlandish guesses to make it work. Cheating on an online chess game is a completely different beast. It would be like if a team was losing to the Patriots, and they walked away and cl…
It shouldn't matter how Niemann cheated this time, or even if he did at all. He already admitted to cheating in the past so ban him and forget about him.
Re: Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann denies using vibrating sex toy to cheat
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
> He's a confirmed cheater. No; it's confirmed that he has cheated. If you believe that this is a quality of a person that cannot be changed or rehabilitated, that is fine, but you should take ownership of it and not attempt to represent it as a fact.
I think it's more about protecting ourselves. I believe people have the capacity to change but I weigh that against the FACT that there will be people who don't. 20 cheaters (of which 19 would have changed their ways) not getting to compete is preferable to the damage that 1 cheater would inflict.
Re: Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann denies using vibrating sex toy to cheat
#57Re: Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann denies using vibrating sex toy to cheat
#58This has gotten so ridiculous to the point that I actually feel bad for Neimann. He has admitted to cheating, there's no debate about that. But he maintains that he has cheated in two isolated incidents, at age 12 and 16. These are mistakes, and given he is a titled player, very serious mistakes. But, beyond barring him from chess.com (a platform with whom his chief accuser has significant business ties), they've abs…
chess.com should release the cheating probabilities of every titled player who has ever registered and verified on chess.com . That would be the only fair thing to do. It should be in fact updated dynamically and visible on a player's profile at all times.
[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/chess-cheating-hans-niemann-rep...
Re: Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann denies using vibrating sex toy to cheat
#59At this point Hans has played tons of tournaments - the kind that other top GMs avoid (hence Niemann is v often top/near top seed) because playing these oftentimes v underrated 2400s is risky - under severe scrutiny, has had his rating peak during this no doubt incredibly stressful period of scrutiny (as seen imo by his behaviour and personality shift to cope with it), and is clearly a high-level GM who doesn't use assistance. Sure, there's THAT[1] interview at SLCC after the Magnus incident where he gives pretty terrible analysis (under a lot of stress, in the public eye, before he has experience with public speaking), but if having an embarrassing analysis when Stockfish is turned off makes you a cheater then Kram is a spinbot[2].
Speaking of spinbots, I think it's worth bringing up CSGO, what some people regard as an infamously toxic game, where cheaters ruin games. But even despite that, the best CSGO player of all time, s1mple, got banned for cheating when he was a teenager in 1.6 and a community of young, heated players can accept that this happens with young players.
Professional CSGO has a pseudo-official system for pick-up games among pro-level players. Occasionally, unknown players can get promoted into this league. A new Estonian player got promoted into it, got accused of cheating, was frequently destroying top level opponents with unconventional plays such that it was 'obvious' that he was cheating, publicly complaining and making accusations on stream[3].
League admins, rather than placating the established professionals who have a vested interest in striking down upcoming talent, instead chose to fly him to their offices where he'd play on a PC set up by the league, under the watch of league staff. Lo-and-behold he was that good, much to the amazement of sceptics (some contemporary reactions caught in this thread[4]).
Accusers had no leg to stand on - what more could they want? Apologies soon ensued[5].
That player was ropz, who today 6 years on has been consistently a top 20 overall player for the duration of his career, and currently at over $1MM of prize money earned[6].
Hans deserved a similar opportunity at the time. He offered to play naked. He wanted to prove himself. He had the game of his career that should have been the happiest moment of his life, instead it turned in to a brutal trial-by-social-media wherein everything he did or said was brutally analyzed and top level creators with massive audiences opined with vague accusations. The world was fixated on a dumb (but funny) rumour on whether this 19 year old's crowning achievement was achieved with a vibrating sex toy up his own ass or not. Organisers chose not to invite Hans to placate Magnus and other top players, hence his last year in random tournaments.
I don't know whether Niemann cheated vs Magnus or not, but I think there's more than enough reasonable doubt that he didn't cheat. And if he didn't cheat, and this is what he has had to go through - public humilation from his former idols, international attention focused on his sphincter, constantly speculated about by people seeking to profit off the controversy - it's such a sad story and an absolute tragedy.
I hope there's never another case like Niemann again.
_
[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYgUp9AGo5k
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXO-mIk4w5Q
[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGOqFVNfhhY
[3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H08x9MfsY_w
[4]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/62lyvf/rop...
[5]: https://twitter.com/JW1/status/955624592944631809 Same player in the above clip
[6]: https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/31594-ropz-robin-koo...
Re: Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann denies using vibrating sex toy to cheat
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree, but the standard rebuttal is that this would allow cheaters to quickly learn the algorithm, which relies heavily on secrecy to disguise the tools they use to detect cheating. What say you?
Whatsoever algorithm they use is some variation of taking the diff of engine moves vs. historically played moves vs. moves played at a certain rating. This is not complicated, contentious nor does it sound like it is worth of a trade secret. Even if they do wish to use a private or proprietary standard to ban or suspend a user officially, they can still use a public standard (can even publish the code on Github for e…