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Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

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Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#51

Post by icegreentea2 »

Zigurd wrote: post #18
jimbob45 wrote: post #3

Many went without masks. Some had water spurting from their machines, but others had nothing to tamp down the powder rising in the air. Does OSHA not require masks in these cases?

A key insight into things like this is that many regulations are like speed limits: loosely enforced. Sometimes because it is too hard to inspect every shop handling dangerous materials. In cases like these you have to ban the dangerous material, or essentially kill the market for the products that use it. BTW, I'm not sure how solid granite, soapstone, marble, etc. would be any better. Maybe my 30 year old totally f…

The silica content varies significantly based on the stone being cut. Engineered stone is apparently like 90%+ silica, with the rest being binders. Granite is apparently ~10-45% silica, while marble has a negligible amount.

There's a OSHA/NIOSH pamphlet linked through the original article (https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/publications/OSHA37...) with table and additional details.

The pamphlet said that in one study, a marble shop performing dry grinding (no wetting, nor other engineering controls) had airborne silica levels of 39-45 ug/m3, while a granite shop which also did not use engineering controls say 89-460ug/m3.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#52

Post by michaelt »

victorbstan wrote: post #4

A lot of workers don’t wear protective gear. By choice. Nobody to blame but themselves.

> Nobody to blame but themselves.

Well, it depends on the situation.

If I, a factory owner, offer optional safety equipment that slows workers down a bit, but I also demand such high productivity that corners have to be cut - whose fault is it when the inevitable happens?

What if I, a factory owner, provide optional basic safety equipment costing $30 per person, but the mask makes the goggles steam up and the boots aren't comfortable? There's better safety equipment available for $300 per person - is it my fault for not buying it?

What if I, a factory owner, happened to start my factory by hiring macho tough guys who don't like wearing a mask, and subsequent hires learn that behaviour from them?

Generally I to listen to the craftspeople I employ on issues of safety because keeping them safe is the whole point of safety. But they and I have a shared responsibility to make sure, if they say the machine is actually safer without the guard, that they're right about that.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#53

Post by lm28469 »

galangalalgol wrote: post #46
mabbo wrote: post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

Incidentally this is also why everyone working in a nation has to receive these benefits (and any others guaranteed to citizens), otherwise you get migrant workers who suck up this, quite literally in this case, but don't receive healthcare.

Only illegal migrants aren't covered, legal ones are. If you make it available to everyone regardless of their legality to be on the soil you open up a whole bunch of other issues

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#55

Post by charles_f »

Tangentially related, there's this copper mining museum in BC (1) in what used to be one of these corporate towns where you lived and died. They do a quick demo of the equipments they used back in the day, in a pre cut hole. Even with your hands on your hears it's painful, teeth chattering - and they don't even really hit the rock.

People working in there weren't wearing any sort of hearing protection and became deaf within months. And after introducing pressured air driven equipment, they were all dying in a few years from silicosis. Until someone added water spraying to precipitate the dust into mud (wherein their issue became to fiddle caked in mud all day long in the dark, which I guess is an improvement over certain death). Which happened years later.

Thinking about the kind of life they had terrorizes me. I don't get how, for the longest time, people were fine with that. I mean no judgement on the workers, they probably didn't have a choice - but the people sending them in probably saw them as kettle.

Makes you think about the sort of progress in worker protection that was made since then. But also this kind of story reveals how people are still ready to profiteer from such deadly practices, if given the opportunity.

1: https://www.britanniaminemuseum.ca/

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#56

Post by Kirby64 »

dmbche wrote: post #2

"Nearly half of the workers suffering silicosis in the UCLA and UCSF study said their workplaces were using water to control dust. Roughly a quarter said they always had respiratory protection. Fazio said studies have found that in many shops, dust is so thick in the air that respirators cannot filter out a sufficient amount. Metzger argued that the kind of sophisticated and costly measures that would be needed to re…

It seems that the synthetic stone is not the cause, but highlighting the problem: poor enforcement of safety standards and inadequate PPE provided to workers.

Just because there's more silica doesn't mean that it's suddenly unsafe whereas cutting granite is safe. Even drywall or cutting concrete you're supposed to wear PPE.

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#57

Post by lm28469 »

victorbstan wrote: post #4

A lot of workers don’t wear protective gear. By choice. Nobody to blame but themselves.

Sadly you have to force people into things for their own good, we do it all the time, seat belts, vaccines, building codes, food regulation, &c.

With that mentality we'd still have 1800s lifespans

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#58

Post by cj »

bushbaba wrote: post #45
mabbo wrote: post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

America offers Medicare so we still bear the cost. Just only if they live long enough to receive the retirement benefits. Yeah one heck of a perverse incentive.

Medicare for the elderly, but we also have Medicaid for people in poverty (Someone taken out of the workforce may qualify for that if they don’t already qualify for disability insurance or similar payments (although I’m not 100% clear if those are funded via private disability insurance or public programs)

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#59

Post by morelisp »

lm28469 wrote: post #53
galangalalgol wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incidentally this is also why everyone working in a nation has to receive these benefits (and any others guaranteed to citizens), otherwise you get migrant workers who suck up this, quite literally in this case, but don't receive healthcare.

Only illegal migrants aren't covered, legal ones are. If you make it available to everyone regardless of their legality to be on the soil you open up a whole bunch of other issues

Like what?

Re: Workers who cut countertops are dying of silicosis

#60

Post by rafaelmn »

mabbo wrote: post #39

What I find interesting when comparing the US the Canada on topics like these is that in Canada, there is self-interest in demanding workers be protected. Like beyond the fact that it's a good thing you do. Because we have a public health care system, funded by taxes, having a large number of young men out of the work force (not paying taxes) and using the health care system effectively means my taxes, everyone's tax…

Not agreeing/disagreeing with this you but I wonder how you feel about obesity tax ? Low physical fitness tax ? There's plenty of evidence that exercise and diet significantly impact health (especially on population level) - like you said there's an incentive to keep those people healthy contributors instead of chronic burdens on the system. Sounds like a logical extension but doesn't seem popular/implemented widely.
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