iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison • Hacker News Board

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#51

Post by thg » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:34 PM UTC

o11c wrote: post #24

The article seems to praise the iPhone a lot for some reason, but to my eyes all its images immediately pop out as worse, except for the case where high depth of field is desired.

> The article seems to praise the iPhone a lot for some reason

It's an Apple news and rumours site, so not really unbiased.

> but to my eyes all its images immediately pop out as worse, except for the case where high depth of field is desired

Can only do so much with limited glass and computational photography. Dedicated cameras are always going to win in the image quality department, simply by virtue of having much larger photo diodes to capture more light with.

Smartphones will also never be able to match the bokeh, as the shorter the physical focal length, the more depth of field you have. Can't beat the laws of physics. They're great for flat-looking everything-in-focus photos, though. Can't replicate that with a DSLR / DLSM, unless it's an (almost) static composition and you do focus stacking in post

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#52

Post by londons_explore » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:37 PM UTC

nayuki wrote: post #8

It's an interesting topic and I agree with the conclusions. But I really dislike the testing methodology - the comparison photos have clearly different poses and people/animals moving around. I've done my own smartphone vs. DSLR image quality comparisons, and I photographed a static city skyline, and it made comparing and pointing out the differences much easier and more defensible.

All modern phones use trickery which helps them with still or nearly still scenes. Specifically, the iPhone will take ~100 shots before and after the shutter is pressed to process in software to reduce noise, increase dynamic range, get the focus/whitebalance perfect, and even to do gimmicky features like avoiding people blinking.

If the scene is fast moving, the DSLR has an advantage, because the DSLR captures everything in a single shot, rather than needing to assemble 100 over multiple seconds.

Thats why I think comparisons between the cameras should test real world things which move.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#53

Post by sumoboy » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

KingLancelot wrote: post #2

Compare it to a modern missorless camera like the Nikon Z9 or Z8.

Zero comparison aside from cost. These silly tests never end for clicks, it's like comparing mcdonalds for a hamburger vs a chef, same result but one took significantly more time where quality means something to the creator. Convenience is nice but it's never close to full potential. fwiw, I've shot the z9 and it's incredible.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#54

Post by throw0101b » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 6:50 PM UTC

shortcake27 wrote: post #32

throw0101b wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was convinced phones were going to approach crop sensor quality but it’s not even close, the 80D completely smoked it. What is the size of a crop sensor (either APS-C, or even m5/4), and what is the size of the typical phone camera? How functionality do you have with aperture with a camera lens versus that of a phone (which often isn't real/physical, but may be simulated aperture)?

What’s the size of a photon? You seem to be suggesting that the limiting factor is the physical size of the sensor, which is totally absurd. Photography optics are not even close to approaching the limits of physics.

> Photography optics are not even close to approaching the limits of physics.

The relationship between aperture sizes, pixel sizes, and diffraction sizes certainly do effect the quality of images:

* https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-phot...

* https://fstoppers.com/science/closer-look-lens-diffraction-5...

* https://www.edmundoptics.ca/knowledge-center/application-not...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airy_disk

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#55

Post by grecy » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 7:25 PM UTC

Zak wrote: post #50

grecy wrote: post #19

Phone cameras have come a long way, and they a so convenient for quick snaps. But "big" cameras still dominate in tricky situations. With my Sony mirrorless shooting in RAW mode for low light is basically cheating. I can shoot at 10,000 ISO without seeing grain. This is a single exposure, for example - no stacking, no trickery https://www.instagram.com/p/CersLuLBfCz/

It's also scaled to 1440x960 and... oddly for Instagram, not compressed to death. I imagine the noise would be more noticeable at full resolution or even printed relatively large and viewed at a reasonable distance.

I just looked at the full res version, I can't see any noise.

Here's a gallery of full res, high ISO with my camera.

Note, it's old now, there are better out there.

https://havecamerawilltravel.com/sony-a7iii-high-iso-sample-...

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#56

Post by ayoisaiah » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

I'm no longer interested in smartphone photography where everything is tuned to appeal to the lowest common denominator. The ergonomics, image quality, and customisability of dedicated cameras still put them leagues ahead. Even an Rx100 with its tiny 1 inch sensor is more enjoyable to use, and you can take it everywhere too.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#57

Post by bayindirh » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #16

throw0101b wrote: post #10

Tony & Chelsea Northrup just posted a video on a recent trip to Italy where they generally left their photo gear at home (taking only some 'token' equipment), and where generally not happy with the results. "My iPhone Camera FAILED me!": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ38JusO-JA Partly it's because while the 'computational photography' stuff can give good results, if you disable it, and go with a 'raw' format: *…

The audience of content creators like this is the ever-dwindling number of people buying expensive dedicated photographic gear. The vast majority of photography now is being done by people who aren't photo gear heads, because almost all of the gear is more than good enough.

While the camera sales are dwindling down, the really dying categories are old compact cameras, which already have similar image quality to phones.

APS-C and Full Frame systems cater to specific audiences, and they go strong. Sony has VLogging specific APS-C systems for example, and they are way better than phones.

Also, you don't have to be a "Photo Gear Head(TM)" to buy a nice kit for yourself. A couple of good primes is more than enough for most photography.

While I take a lot of photos with my phone, you can't beat a proper camera with a good sensor and good optics.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#58

Post by nunez » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 8:46 PM UTC

One thing to note about these photos is that the close-up shots were taken with the 24-70mm f/2.8L lens, which is one of Canon’s best lenses.

The iPhone 15 Pro Max being capable of taking shots that are that close to the output from that lens is unbelievable.

I think the iPhone would have nailed the bokeh on the crane shot in Portrait mode, which the camera can now detect automatically and switch to with near-zero latency with a single tap on the viewfinder.

That said, a comparison of night-time shots would have been more valuable. This is where DSLRs shine, especially in non-flash high ISO conditions.

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#59

Post by yunohn » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 10:45 PM UTC

nayuki wrote: post #43

shortcake27 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the size of a photon? You seem to be suggesting that the limiting factor is the physical size of the sensor, which is totally absurd. Photography optics are not even close to approaching the limits of physics.

Wrong. Silicon image sensors are benchmarked by their "quantum efficiency" - the number of electrons generated by a photon. That number is something like 0.5, which isn't far from 1.0. There is very finite room for improvement in sensors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_efficiency Now, the following point is not well-known, but the most important thing that determines image quality is simply the frontmost piece…

> "quantum efficiency" - the number of electrons generated by a photon. That number is something like 0.5, which isn't far from 1.0.

QE is a ratio as described by your Wikipedia link. There is a massive difference between a ratio of 0.5 and 1.0!

Re: iPhone 15 Pro Max vs. DSLR photos: Real world camera comparison

#60

Post by nayuki » Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 10:57 PM UTC

yunohn wrote: post #59

nayuki wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Silicon image sensors are benchmarked by their "quantum efficiency" - the number of electrons generated by a photon. That number is something like 0.5, which isn't far from 1.0. There is very finite room for improvement in sensors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_efficiency Now, the following point is not well-known, but the most important thing that determines image quality is simply the frontmost piece…

> "quantum efficiency" - the number of electrons generated by a photon. That number is something like 0.5, which isn't far from 1.0. QE is a ratio as described by your Wikipedia link. There is a massive difference between a ratio of 0.5 and 1.0!

0.5 to 1.0 is just one F-stop in photography. If you make your sensor 2× better, that's not going to overcome a 100× reduction in front glass area when moving from a DSLR to a phone.