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Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

community.atlassian.com

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Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#51

Post by logicchains »

Aurornis wrote: post #33
xvilka wrote: post #12

GitHub and GitLab workflows are much more convenient in my opinion. They were made with actual workers in mind: developers, QA, release managers, DevOps, etc. Jira, on the other hand, is purely manager's toy with all it's useless features that often stand in a way of daily routine. I never saw any developer who was happy about Jira.

> I never saw any developer who was happy about Jira. We did a clean Jira setup from scratch as set up by developers for developers. It was fine. It wasn’t until the company hired full time TPMs who made it unnecessarily complicated with an endless list of plugins and processes that it got to be miserable. The real killer was the way they wanted us to use it: They declared that only TPMs could move tickets, and only…

>Repeat those meetings 3X a week and I developed a visceral objection to Jira. Only later did I realize that what I hated most was actually the pomp and ceremony that came with Jira-toting TPMs

Jira's like guns: it can be used for good or evil. But given how bad the worst case can be, would you really want to leave a bunch of rifles lying around your company?

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#52

Post by davinci123 »

xvilka wrote: post #12

GitHub and GitLab workflows are much more convenient in my opinion. They were made with actual workers in mind: developers, QA, release managers, DevOps, etc. Jira, on the other hand, is purely manager's toy with all it's useless features that often stand in a way of daily routine. I never saw any developer who was happy about Jira.

Funny anecdote - "Jira is still growing and I have personally talked to many developers who love it". There is an inherent bias in Hacker News on certain stories or perceptions getting amplified. This is primarily the silicon valley echo chamber.

I have been reading about how Jira is going to die for the last 10 years. It has not happened yet. And I don't foresee it happening in the near future - there are so many competitors in the graveyard: Asana, Monday, ClickUp, Product Board, Clubhouse, and Linear will be next.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#54

Post by Macha »

oneplane wrote: post #31
cassianoleal wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make good workflows on Jira, yes. That doesn't fix the horrible UX, sluggishness, confusing options, forms that present a lot of useless fields but don't give you the option to present other, more useful ones, ... I could go on. Jira is a terrible tool.

Sounds like your experience mostly revolves around older self-hosted JIRA versions? The UX on modern JIRA has been fine for years, and the options and forms are easy to use. Granted, you can add useless restrictions and weird field configurations, but if someone configures it until it's broken, that would be on them, not really on the product.

I worked at a company that bailed on a JIRA Server to Cloud migration and went for enterprise instead because cloud's performance was so poor compared to the self hosted version.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#56

Post by RamblingCTO »

jollyllama wrote: post #38
RamblingCTO wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Jira and everything else by Atlassian has and will always be garbage, it looks way better than Redmine at least.

Redmine sucks; upgrades are painful unless you're very good with managing Rails. We are looking to switch to YouTrack.

Thanks for the data point! We tried Space but couldn't get used to it. Was in beta tho. I also didn't want to move away from GitHub back then and especially roam atm. So YouTrack sounds nice.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#57

Post by cassianoleal »

oneplane wrote: post #31
cassianoleal wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can make good workflows on Jira, yes. That doesn't fix the horrible UX, sluggishness, confusing options, forms that present a lot of useless fields but don't give you the option to present other, more useful ones, ... I could go on. Jira is a terrible tool.

Sounds like your experience mostly revolves around older self-hosted JIRA versions? The UX on modern JIRA has been fine for years, and the options and forms are easy to use. Granted, you can add useless restrictions and weird field configurations, but if someone configures it until it's broken, that would be on them, not really on the product.

I haven't used a self-hosted Jira in many years. This is for the SaaS but IIRC it's not any better on self-hosted.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#58

Post by oneplane »

cassianoleal wrote: post #57
oneplane wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like your experience mostly revolves around older self-hosted JIRA versions? The UX on modern JIRA has been fine for years, and the options and forms are easy to use. Granted, you can add useless restrictions and weird field configurations, but if someone configures it until it's broken, that would be on them, not really on the product.

I haven't used a self-hosted Jira in many years. This is for the SaaS but IIRC it's not any better on self-hosted.

Strange... While I have seen many poorly configured PM tools (including more badly configured JIRAs than useful configured JIRAs), I haven't really had any performance issues or UX issues with the ones I work with directly. It's not 'slower' than say, GitHub and GitLab's boards, or Trello.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#59

Post by hotnfresh »

criley2 wrote: post #20
asoneth wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience at mid-sized companies the decision is usually made by the development teams themselves who have a choice along a spectrum between a proprietary SAAS solution that may end up costing the company unpredictable amounts of money in the future on one end and a self-hosted open source solution that we have to trust the IT/devops folks to maintain competently on the other. Also in my experience, the compan…

The cold hard math that engineers never want to do is the one involving their own salary. On levels.fyi devops is median $150k in the US, and at that price it means they cost the company a lot more including benefits, taxes, etc. If a "crappy" tool costs $10k/mo for the team and doesn't require much or any devops time to setup and maintain, it's likely cheaper than the $0/mo opensource but requires part or full time…

What’s left out is accounting of the time the paid tool wastes. Ten seconds here, a minute there, two seconds another place. If the open source solution is in fact the more productive tool (nb it might not be) then $20,000 in dev time to babysit open source might be cheaper than the $10,000 paid tool—because that tool is wasting more than $10,000 in productivity, it’s just harder to see.

Re: Atlassian cripples’ Jira automation for all but enterprise customers

#60

Post by DrBazza »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #34

Lots of discussion here of whether Jira is any good or not. Almost none about the actual contents of the article. None at all about how the changes are bad for all but enterprise customers. It's not obvious to me - and it would be nice to have an explanation.

Atlassian has always been "enterprise-first" as far as I know. I can only assume that their free-tier which I've rarely encountered in the wild, isn't that successful in terms of conversion to the full-fat product or is costly in some way. I couldn't decide whether enterprise customers would be any worse off.

I've maintained for a while that the bug-tracking industry is overdue a "v2" or "v3" product (e.g. IRC -> MSM Messenger/Yahoo -> Slack-Discord).

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