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For the first time ever, the number of poor people is declining everywhere

economist.com

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Re: For the first time ever, the number of poor people is declining everywhere

#51

Post by nickik »

lwhi wrote: post #31
davidw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The economy is, by and large, not a zero sum game. Otherwise, why are N billion people by and large better off than however many people there were 200 years ago?

I see your point, but then isn't wealth always relative? If scarcity isn't used as a yard stick for money creation how can inflation be avoided?

No wealth is not relative. If you have nothing you have nothing thats the baseline. I think what you mean is that it is hard to measure how healthy somebody is, thats why we use money to meausre wealth, with money you get choise and if you can choose you can take what makes you the happiest.

This line of reasoning is flawed but its the best weath got. If you we find out that choise make you unhappy then we have a problem and I don't know how to solve it.

Re: For the first time ever, the number of poor people is declining everywhere

#53

Post by roel_v »

lwhi wrote: post #31
davidw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The economy is, by and large, not a zero sum game. Otherwise, why are N billion people by and large better off than however many people there were 200 years ago?

I see your point, but then isn't wealth always relative? If scarcity isn't used as a yard stick for money creation how can inflation be avoided?

I don't understand your question? No, wealth isn't always relative (it's debatable but not so interesting if it's ever relative) - an 'average' farmer in the 1800's (in Europe) had a vastly worse lifestyle than an 'average' farmer today. Today, he is more wealthy in absolute terms.

If you and I can each grow 100kg of wheat and 2 pigs per year when we work solitary, but if you can grow 400 kg and I can grow 4 pigs if we specialize and trade wheat for pigs, then we are both objectively more wealthy in the second scenario.

Why would you want to avoid inflation? Money is only a measure for wealth at one point in time, for the rest it's just a tool to provide liquidity and efficiency to markets. What do you mean by 'scarcity being used as a yard stick for money creation'?

Re: For the first time ever, the number of poor people is declining everywhere

#54

Post by nickik »

alexro wrote: post #38
alexro wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in capitalism, third world improvements is just an investment. The debt is due already for some nations and soon the next batch will follow the "debt settlement". Look around yourself in your country. Are people good enough there and no "occupy wall street" actions taking place? I know how the things are in the helped to be "developed" countries, and one from one of those.

No amount voting down can change the fact that economics is another form of war nowadays. The North American empire thrives at the moment, as the Romans did some time ago. But who wins the global world is yet to be seen.

Calling the free market a war is false. Its a game and we have player some good some bad some have a head start some don't. Markets are based on voluntary action.

Give me an example where one countrie does something bad to a nother where they have no choise.

Edit

Typical example: Greek was not forced to do Austerity they do so because they want to get money. The could, and should (in my opinion) have devolted long ago, like Island there much better of now.

Re: For the first time ever, the number of poor people is declining everywhere

#55

Post by roel_v »

alexro wrote: post #38
alexro wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in capitalism, third world improvements is just an investment. The debt is due already for some nations and soon the next batch will follow the "debt settlement". Look around yourself in your country. Are people good enough there and no "occupy wall street" actions taking place? I know how the things are in the helped to be "developed" countries, and one from one of those.

No amount voting down can change the fact that economics is another form of war nowadays. The North American empire thrives at the moment, as the Romans did some time ago. But who wins the global world is yet to be seen.

You're being down voted not because of the content of your viewpoint, but because what you say doesn't make sense, is not supported by any substantive reasoning or data and in general is meaningless defeatist rhetoric, antagonizing for the sake of it.

Re: For the first time ever, the number of poor people is declining everywhere

#56

Post by nmridul »

I am genuinely curious why the poverty calculation is done with respect to some dollar threshold ( earning below $1.25 is poor ??).

In some part of the world $1.25 (after converting to local currency) per day can buy generous meals 3 times a day and still be left with amount to pay for transport, clothing and housing. But in some part even $10 per day would make you poor.

Also, a person earning more than $1.25 now compared to last year doesn't mean he crossed the poverty barrier. The ever increasing inflation would have reduced him to a worse than poverty condition.

The calculation should be based on some quantity of food (amount of rice / starch he can buy with his earnings) etc.

Re: For the first time ever, the number of poor people is declining everywhere

#57

Post by InclinedPlane »

nmridul wrote: post #56

I am genuinely curious why the poverty calculation is done with respect to some dollar threshold ( earning below $1.25 is poor ??). In some part of the world $1.25 (after converting to local currency) per day can buy generous meals 3 times a day and still be left with amount to pay for transport, clothing and housing. But in some part even $10 per day would make you poor. Also, a person earning more than $1.25 now co…

Those aren't currency exchange rate dollars, they are "purchasing power parity" dollar equivalents, which take into account everything you've mentioned.

Re: For the first time ever, the number of poor people is declining everywhere

#58

Post by alexro »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #49
alexro wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in capitalism, third world improvements is just an investment. The debt is due already for some nations and soon the next batch will follow the "debt settlement". Look around yourself in your country. Are people good enough there and no "occupy wall street" actions taking place? I know how the things are in the helped to be "developed" countries, and one from one of those.

Compared to 3rd world poverty even very severe banking and debt problems are nothing. Do you think people in, say, Greece 5 or 10 years from now will think their lives are no better than the average person living in, say, Malawi or Zambia?

To every good thing there is a bad effect. The effect of helping third nations to get in debt is hate. This hate accumulates and the result will be similar to the bubble exodus. This the modus operandi of capitalism - whoever holds the bag last will get in trouble.

There might be some few good cases but the greater part of history just serves my pessimistic view. All the empires claimed to help less developed nations to become "better". Only for some strange reason the latter didn't want this help until persuaded with military force.

Re: For the first time ever, the number of poor people is declining everywhere

#59

Post by alexro »

roel_v wrote: post #55
alexro wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount voting down can change the fact that economics is another form of war nowadays. The North American empire thrives at the moment, as the Romans did some time ago. But who wins the global world is yet to be seen.

You're being down voted not because of the content of your viewpoint, but because what you say doesn't make sense, is not supported by any substantive reasoning or data and in general is meaningless defeatist rhetoric, antagonizing for the sake of it.

Yeah, all is good

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_wars

Re: For the first time ever, the number of poor people is declining everywhere

#60

Post by InclinedPlane »

tfb wrote: post #21
hsshah wrote: post #5

Indeed. Couple of optimistic talks at TED that shows that on an 'average' it IS getting better. http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violen... http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_reveals_new_insights_o... However, the 24/7 news cycle drums up everything that is negative and hence most of "feel" that it is getting worse.

As much as I despise all of the negativity in the news, the optimistic part of me sees it as a way to shine light on the many things wrong with the world at present. While the news may be a bit of a downer, I believe the lasting effects of it are for the best. When I learn of something terrible or even of a minor crime or injustice, the first thing that comes to my mind is along these lines: "There is obviously some…

The problem is that a skewed sense of what's going on in the world can give you a skewed sense of how to improve the world. Case in point: many people imagine that the developed world buying cheap goods and labor from the developing world is a kind of exploitation rather than a form of enrichment.

It also tends to focus on exceptional events rather than on broad trends (positive or negative).

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