Tech Workers Deserve a Union: An Interview with Ethan Marcotte

Post by marcinzm » Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 12:42 PM UTC

ownagefool wrote: post #35

alphazard wrote: post #22

Don't unions work best in fields where quality is very uniform and expertise counts for very little? I'm thinking about low skilled jobs that can be mastered in months or years. Unions create salary progression, and benefits for seniority where there is otherwise no reason for them to exist. When no one does anything better than anyone else, it makes sense to negotiate as a block, individuals have no power. Now compa…

It's a decent take. But taking a view on markets outside of the US and SV/bigtech in particular, those 10x devs aren't usually getting the 2-3x as much, and taking a view of industry in total, profits are runaway but wages are flat and falling, especially when considering inflation. Capital is winning. Perhaps unions are required. But I'm not a union member and likely never will be.

Post by lnxg33k1 » Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 12:42 PM UTC

flerchin wrote: post #37

itsoktocry wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best engineers are worth literally 10x the worst engineers Uh, I'm pretty sure the best employees in any field are worth 10x what the worst employees are, whether you're writing code, assembling a car or gutting fish. The economics of labour suggest unions are most valuable where there's a monopsony buyer of labour. Big Tech might fit that bill, especially when we know they colluded to depress salaries.

The best airline pilot lands the plane the same as the worst.

Post by runako » Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 12:43 PM UTC

infecto wrote: post #8

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #5

Tech workers are usually so buried, heads hunched over the keyboard, focused on the latest project, that they aren't even aware they are being used. They straiten their back one day, look around, and realize they've been working for 20 years and getting nowhere. They got good enough raises, but forgot inflation, and it was really nothing.

In what country? Software engineers have some incredible pay for pretty low effort in the last 15years. Even before that it was a pretty decent living for most of the time pretty non-unique software. We are talking about them as an exploited working class, wild to me.

Post by paulcole » Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 12:43 PM UTC

kdmccormick wrote: post #19

infecto wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what country? Software engineers have some incredible pay for pretty low effort in the last 15years. Even before that it was a pretty decent living for most of the time pretty non-unique software. We are talking about them as an exploited working class, wild to me.

IMHO our profession's adherence to ethics and technical standards is shockingly low compared to others. If a civil engineer was asked to build a bridge that will probably be unsafe, I think they and their colleagues would have the power to refuse (right?). If a software engineer is asked to ship a feature that's probably insecure then... IDK, gotta get it to prod, move fast and break things, right? I wonder if unioni…

Post by LtWorf » Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 12:43 PM UTC

tourmalinetaco wrote: post #27

infecto wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what country? Software engineers have some incredible pay for pretty low effort in the last 15years. Even before that it was a pretty decent living for most of the time pretty non-unique software. We are talking about them as an exploited working class, wild to me.

Even in countries like India programmers make salaries in the multiples of the average (checking around on Payscale I see the average is around ₹60k, while programmers make on average ₹460k). Sometimes programmers can have it rough, but that’s entirely their decision to stay. As a programmer you have unparalleled movement; the post-lockdown WFH standard and ability to code from basically any device show that readily.…