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Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

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Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#51

Post by smfugit »

lusus_naturae wrote: post #4
smfugit wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are splitting the cost though. Greater the time you spend on bread winning, and it always increases as work/fam responsibilities & fam size increase with time, less time you have on the home front. It makes a big diff(a real relief infact) if SO is full time manning that front.

This requires tremendous trust in the breadwinnner, though. Sexual competition is a reality, which is why infidelity happens. If the housewife/husband is deemed replaceable, then there is an implicit power differential between the breadwinner and house spouse, which opens the "lesser" half to abuse (physical, emotional, financial etc.). My recommendation to anyone considering house spousing is to have a contingency p…

Yup things can/will get complicated but avoidance of risk doesnt solve the og problem of burnout. And with age/time/screwing up both sides learn that. There is probably no other way to build that trust.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#52

Post by Gibbon1 »

chomp wrote: post #22
gustavus wrote: post #12

Does this surprise anyone this has been the way households have been structured for millennia, even among the elite aristocrats of ancient Rome, or Egyptian dynastys there would always the woman was primarily responsible for the running of the home, which despite what it sounds like could be quite a daunting affair, similar on the level of running a small business. I couldn't do what I do without my wife, she is just…

> Honestly how did we convince half of society that it was liberating and freedom to be able to slave away for a corporate wage day in and day out? I think because until recently, housewives had a very poor standard of living (e.g. women couldn't reliably get credit cards til the 70s, very traditional views of a role of a woman in a family). It's not a surprise that the subsequent generations (Gen X and Millennials)…

Summarizing stuff my mom and grandmothers said.

In the US during WWII women took over a lot of traditionally male jobs and got to run their own lives as men were often away. After the war there was a full court press to force women back into the home and traditional roles. And by 1960 women were in open revolt.

My mother mentioned being a housewife with small kids as. You spend all day at home with children and no adults to talk to. Then your husband comes home and now you have an adult to talk to. But he's been talking adult stuff all day and just wants some downtime.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#53

Post by mrkeen »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #9
mrkeen wrote: post #2

> Housewifing bears a different kind of opportunity cost than breadwinning Yes. The opportunity cost of housewifing is breadwinning. The opportunity cost of breadwinning is housewifing. Guess which one pays the rent/mortgage (keywords not found in the text.)

If both partners work then: - many more meals must be ordered in or eaten out instead of prepared from scratch - transportation cost increases, more vehicles needed which means more gas more insurance more repairs or more transit fare and now both people sacrifice possibly hours of their day to commuting - childcare services must be paid for and transportation arranged for them - the choice of housing now has the add…

> Division of labor is the cornerstone of an advanced industrial society that makes everything possible.

I agree.

It would be absolutely crazy to split the workforce down the middle (housewife vs. everything else). It would be like if half the workforce was bakers or dentists.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#54

Post by TheNewsIsHere »

evertruthy wrote: post #27
deaddodo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the opposite problem, my ex wanted to be taken care of and not have to work (traditional housespouse); but they expected me to do half of the housework (or more, in the case of the dogs they wanted). I would work 8-10hrs a day, then spend another 1.5ish walking dogs and .5-1ish doing house chores. After I was done, I would have to listen to them complain about how exhausted they were mopping the floors. When I…

I pay for everything. I also do ~50% if the housework and childcare, as I’m mostly retired. Some people will think that’s unfair (my income is mostly sourced from investments, sure, but I’m still bringing the income). Some will think it’s fair as it’s about doing the work. Your situation, on the other hand, seems categorically unfair to you.

Unfair/fair “to you” is the key to these arrangements, I think.

I have found that the only real recipe for happiness in domestic life is if the parties come to the table honestly and earnestly, work out some kind of arrangement they’re jointly comfortable with, and understand that this may change over time. That’s OK, and the process should then begin again. (We love iteration around here, embrace it at home too!)

No one should be trapped into some sort of lopsided domestic hell hole with no option to be fulfilled and no equitable support from their other.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#55

Post by jcarrano »

darth_avocado wrote: post #11

I would absolutely give up my career to be a househusband, but increasingly, one income isn’t sufficient to support a family. I work in tech and even my salary (or my wife’s) cannot support the two of us + children. Yes we’d save some childcare costs, but that’s about it. If anything, your other expenses on an average remain the same but your standard of living drops because there’s less income.

Turns out that "women can work" quickly devolved into "women must work". The curious part is that if you go further back in history, to when most of the population were peasant farmers, it was more the case of "everyone must work" (children too), and house work was nothing like today's. The average 1950's housewife did not have to kill chickens to make soup.

Couple this with the fact that nowadays couples have less children in average and you start to get the picture. If now two people work (vs 1) to have one child (vs 5) that will get the same (vs better) quality of life than their parents then you have on average become poorer.

I can't help but feel we have been duped.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#56

Post by jcarrano »

Yujf wrote: post #23
gustavus wrote: post #12

Does this surprise anyone this has been the way households have been structured for millennia, even among the elite aristocrats of ancient Rome, or Egyptian dynastys there would always the woman was primarily responsible for the running of the home, which despite what it sounds like could be quite a daunting affair, similar on the level of running a small business. I couldn't do what I do without my wife, she is just…

How is it not liberating to not be dependant on another human being for everything?

Better than being dependent on a soulless employer, while still having to take care of the family.

Actually, being able to depend on someone you trust is the real liberation.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#57

Post by Apocryphon »

jcarrano wrote: post #56
Yujf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it not liberating to not be dependant on another human being for everything?

Better than being dependent on a soulless employer, while still having to take care of the family. Actually, being able to depend on someone you trust is the real liberation.

In premodern times, it wasn't so much trust as societal mandate. You have to imagine that domestic abuse and neglect ran rife and was just accepted as par for the course.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#58

Post by dingnuts »

jcarrano wrote: post #55
darth_avocado wrote: post #11

I would absolutely give up my career to be a househusband, but increasingly, one income isn’t sufficient to support a family. I work in tech and even my salary (or my wife’s) cannot support the two of us + children. Yes we’d save some childcare costs, but that’s about it. If anything, your other expenses on an average remain the same but your standard of living drops because there’s less income.

Turns out that "women can work" quickly devolved into "women must work". The curious part is that if you go further back in history, to when most of the population were peasant farmers, it was more the case of "everyone must work" (children too), and house work was nothing like today's. The average 1950's housewife did not have to kill chickens to make soup. Couple this with the fact that nowadays couples have less c…

A lot of it is about lifestyle. The lifestyle you could have with one income in the 1950s would be a house that was tiny by today's standards, built shabbily, no HVAC, etc etc

Anecdotally I know a family of five that survived on one income that is half of a common tech salary, while in a fairly high cost of living area.

You know how they did it? Frugality, and sacrifice, of anything unnecessary. The mother keeps up the home and homeschools the kids. The dad learned to maintain cars by watching YouTube every time their old car broke down.

Mom could've gotten a job, but they made a choice to sacrifice a more luxurious lifestyle for the ability to keep the kids out of public schools. It is a choice. It's just a choice most people don't want to make. They want the lifestyle that comes with two incomes, and the benefits of being a stay at home spouse, and it's just not realistic.

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#59

Post by dingnuts »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #52
chomp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly how did we convince half of society that it was liberating and freedom to be able to slave away for a corporate wage day in and day out? I think because until recently, housewives had a very poor standard of living (e.g. women couldn't reliably get credit cards til the 70s, very traditional views of a role of a woman in a family). It's not a surprise that the subsequent generations (Gen X and Millennials)…

Summarizing stuff my mom and grandmothers said. In the US during WWII women took over a lot of traditionally male jobs and got to run their own lives as men were often away. After the war there was a full court press to force women back into the home and traditional roles. And by 1960 women were in open revolt. My mother mentioned being a housewife with small kids as. You spend all day at home with children and no ad…

>My mother mentioned being a housewife with small kids as. You spend all day at home with children and no adults to talk to.

The modern homeschooling movement is solving this problem. I've seen it firsthand. The caretaker parents put their kids in various daytime group programs and many days are spent with other parents and other kids.

The kids get time with other kids. The parents get time with other adults. It's the grassroots version of "it takes a village"

Re: Housewives Are One Surprising Solution to “Millennial Burnout”

#60

Post by lusus_naturae »

biomcgary wrote: post #31
lusus_naturae wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This requires tremendous trust in the breadwinnner, though. Sexual competition is a reality, which is why infidelity happens. If the housewife/husband is deemed replaceable, then there is an implicit power differential between the breadwinner and house spouse, which opens the "lesser" half to abuse (physical, emotional, financial etc.). My recommendation to anyone considering house spousing is to have a contingency p…

The most efficient solution for narcissism (i.e., abandonment of a non-breadwinning spouse) is not more narcissism (i.e., self-focused contingency planning). Unfortunately, in a highly individualistic (i.e., narcissistic) society, it may be the only one that is practical.

On a philosophical level I agree with you that it's not the answer. But I don't think contingency planning is narcissistic. Maybe I should define what a typical such plan looks like? To me it is simply having skills to become a breadwinner yourself should you need to. It doesn't need to be more than that. Ultimately however society needs more appreciation of how and why long-term monogamous relationships provide both individual and communal stability, and how the emotional/physical labor of house spousing provides value beyond immediate survival.
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