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AtariAge and Atari

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Re: AtariAge and Atari

#51

Post by ddingus »

TMWNN wrote: post #9
ddingus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a FujiNET for it. I bought one of these. About $60. The FujiNET is amazing. It works via the standard SIO subsystem provided by the Atari system OS ROM. Device independent I/O. D: DISK P: PRINTER ETC... Now has N: for network. This device makes Atari Basic Internet capable. People have written 10 line programs to do all sorts of Internet tasks. Multi player online games are possible and have been done. There are…

As a Commodore person, FujiNet (and thus SIO) is one of the things that I envy about Atari. https://np.reddit.com/r/retrobattlestations/comments/10cktls... >

There is a version of the FujiNET in progress for your C64 or 128, etc... :)

I am getting one for my Apple, and want to get a C128 sometime in the near future.

Was all Atari for a long time, and then a while back, I bumped into an Apple //e and realized just how much fun all these machines are!

The C128 is next.

And, in short order, we could all write programs that talk to one another over the Internet via FujiNET devices. Good times ahead.

And yeah, SIO is pretty cool. Atari got that right. The one thing I envy about the C64 and friends is full 320 pixel color resolution. The Ataris are 160 pixel. And I am not talking about size. Both machines can deliver 320 pixels, but Atari machines can only specify a difference in lumanance between pixels at that resolution.

In the last 10 years, that difference has proven itself with some damn cool demoscene productions on C64 and friends. Plus, the 128 has a real 80 column display. My Apple has that too, and I really miss it on the Atari.

Anyhow... have fun.

Re: AtariAge and Atari

#52

Post by ddingus »

TMWNN wrote: post #31
rbanffy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen equivalents for the C64 and Apple II.

I'm not sure how far along the Apple II version is, but that's not surprising given its ability to autoboot from a card. As I discuss in the linked thread, FujiNet for the C64 is not and cannot be the equivalent because of lack of SIO or something akin to it.

There are compromises on all the platforms. SIO is really slick. Any software written to it will work with FujiNET, and basically operate with the network, as it would any other device.

From what I understand, the C64 product requires one to use BASIC to kick something off, just like everyone does for the disk drives.

But, after that it's looking like the overall features and experience are going to be there. The video shows command line access working. A more friendly client won't be far behind, and that could be in BASIC and perform reasonably in most cases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfzj65zxrDc

Re: AtariAge and Atari

#53

Post by TMWNN »

ddingus wrote: post #52
TMWNN wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how far along the Apple II version is, but that's not surprising given its ability to autoboot from a card. As I discuss in the linked thread, FujiNet for the C64 is not and cannot be the equivalent because of lack of SIO or something akin to it.

There are compromises on all the platforms. SIO is really slick. Any software written to it will work with FujiNET, and basically operate with the network, as it would any other device. From what I understand, the C64 product requires one to use BASIC to kick something off, just like everyone does for the disk drives. But, after that it's looking like the overall features and experience are going to be there. The vid…

>From what I understand, the C64 product requires one to use BASIC to kick something off, just like everyone does for the disk drives.

Yes, this is what I was alluding to. I know it's no big deal to type `LOAD "*",8,1` or whatever to start the FujiNet main menu, but there is still a qualitative difference between that and being able to turn the Atari 8-bit on and have the functionality automatically be available. That's possible on C64, too, but not if the hardware is connected only via the Commodore serial port; it would require the cartridge port, or a ROM change. As mentioned, I am also unsure of how the throughput would compare.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the lack of functionality with telecom software. Commodore modems don't connect to the serial port, so terminal emulators and such won't work out of the box with FujiNet the way they can on Atari.

Re: AtariAge and Atari

#54

Post by lordfrito »

MenhirMike wrote: post #42
lordfrito wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind Atari being a nostalgia company. Actually, when I think about it, at this point their business only makes sense if they embrace being a nostalgia company. The old company is long gone. Even if it was around, the people/skillset are no longer relevant to game development. There's no engineering/developer continuity, tech continuity, etc. So it makes no sense for Atari to attempt to compete with other AAA…

Yeah, the AAA thing definitely didn't work out for them (or for whatever company was called Atari when they were AAA publishing). I could definitely see them being a great Indie publisher, and I just saw that they bought Nightdive Studios earlier this year (at least I assume that's the same Atari) - so they seems to be setting themselves up for that kind of "Triple-I/Double-A" stuff. Heck, I hope they still own the S…

> Okay, seems like Atari actually has potential ahead of them, that's cool!

Agreed. The most potential they've shown since Jaguar.

Here's to hoping Atari doesn't grab defeat from the jaws of victory again.

Re: AtariAge and Atari

#55

Post by ddingus »

TMWNN wrote: post #53
ddingus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are compromises on all the platforms. SIO is really slick. Any software written to it will work with FujiNET, and basically operate with the network, as it would any other device. From what I understand, the C64 product requires one to use BASIC to kick something off, just like everyone does for the disk drives. But, after that it's looking like the overall features and experience are going to be there. The vid…

>From what I understand, the C64 product requires one to use BASIC to kick something off, just like everyone does for the disk drives. Yes, this is what I was alluding to. I know it's no big deal to type `LOAD "*",8,1` or whatever to start the FujiNet main menu, but there is still a qualitative difference between that and being able to turn the Atari 8-bit on and have the functionality automatically be available. Tha…

I agree. Autoboot is just nice. Makes efforts that can be done that way feel like a part of the machine.

The serial port is a bummer! What is used? Cart port?

Re: AtariAge and Atari

#56

Post by rbanffy »

TMWNN wrote: post #49
rbanffy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least the disk interface is a serial one, and the 1541/1571 drives are smart devices much like the Atari ones. The disk interface is not as "general" as SIO, but it seems they are functionally very similar. Unless I understand it very wrong, in the base C64 OS, you run an "ls" by opening the floppy device and asking the drive to read it.

Again, please read the linked thread. I explain the difference between SIO and Commodore's approach and why the latter doesn't allow what the former does, specifically autobooting and throughput.

I understand SIO is better and Fujinet can do things on the Atari that are not possible on the C64, and can’t pretend to be a printer or modem because the 64 only used the disk port for disks.

OTOH, while autobooting or running unmodified software is not an option, nothing prevents the modification of existing software to run with the Fujinet’s extra features. The very basic stuff, the ability to load software off a disk image, is there.

Re: AtariAge and Atari

#57

Post by ddingus »

schlauerfox wrote: post #3

I hope someone archives the site, because fan sites with this kind of history get butchered when a commercial interest has a change of mgmt, and companies have a shorter lifespan than the fan interest. Good on the site operating turning it into some income though.

For a while, the site author will continue to maintain and build the site and community. This will help stave off what we all know usually happens.

I've been a member there since almost the beginning. The site builder really did a great job with AA.

I hope it runs well for a long time yet.

Re: AtariAge and Atari

#58

Post by ahefner »

xp84 wrote: post #27
crims0n wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandfather’s 800XL was my first computing experience, I have a soft spot for them.

That was a fun computer. I got to play around with them at school which was actually my first computer experience. The 2600 though, I just could never be excited by. I feel it could only be truly appreciated by someone in the actual late 70s, before anything better had ever been experienced. Once that ship sailed, with the NES especially, it could never really go back. But I'm sure people with fond memories of those…

Oddly, I grew up (in the 80s!) feeling the way you describe about the 2600, that it was just too crude to revisit.. but when i finally bought one some years back, paired with an authentic CRT, I was really enchanted by the elemental simplicity of the games, the instant snap response with no input or display lag, sharpened further by the pixel-perfect (and intuitively predictable) collision detection being done within the video chip. My console sweet spot previously had been the NES and some early 16-bit machines, but for the raw fundamentals of a lot of shooter-type games, the 2600 felt so much better - and to a lesser degree its successor in the 8-bit home computers, but with their expanded capabilities those machines gave developers more rope to hang themselves. Yar's Revenge, Demon Attack, Berzerk - there's real magic there, just you versus the circuitry.

Re: AtariAge and Atari

#59

Post by ddingus »

ShadowBanThis01 wrote: post #38
ddingus wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a FujiNET for it. I bought one of these. About $60. The FujiNET is amazing. It works via the standard SIO subsystem provided by the Atari system OS ROM. Device independent I/O. D: DISK P: PRINTER ETC... Now has N: for network. This device makes Atari Basic Internet capable. People have written 10 line programs to do all sorts of Internet tasks. Multi player online games are possible and have been done. There are…

Cool, thanks for the reference! In the early '90s I wanted to get some drawings I did with the Atari Touch Tablet into my Windows computers. So I looked at the specs for the BMP format and learned enough 6502 assembly language to do the conversion on the Atari. Then I hooked the Atari modem and a Windows computer up to phone jacks in my parents' house, fired up TinyBBS (if I remember correctly) on the Windows compute…

You were!

People moved data in many ways didn't they?

Print it out. I moved some code and data that way. Just type it in again.

Some people made cables and toggled lines in the controller ports.

Audio.

Who knows what else?

Re: AtariAge and Atari

#60

Post by linker3000 »

rbanffy wrote: post #56
TMWNN wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, please read the linked thread. I explain the difference between SIO and Commodore's approach and why the latter doesn't allow what the former does, specifically autobooting and throughput.

I understand SIO is better and Fujinet can do things on the Atari that are not possible on the C64, and can’t pretend to be a printer or modem because the 64 only used the disk port for disks. OTOH, while autobooting or running unmodified software is not an option, nothing prevents the modification of existing software to run with the Fujinet’s extra features. The very basic stuff, the ability to load software off a…

The 64's serial (IEC) port uses device numbering to support daisy-chained disk drives, printers and other devices.

https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Device_number.

Fujinet on the C64 supports modem comms - the implementation is based on the Meatloaf project:

https://meatloaf.cc/

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