Why the assumption that everybody should grow? Some people are perfectly fine as SWE and don't want to become manager, tech lead or org leader. In some companies, you can have a very high salary as a SWE and still learn new things every day.
Engineer’s guide to career growth: Advice from my time at Stripe and Facebook
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Re: Engineer’s guide to career growth: Advice from my time at Stripe and Facebook
#52I feel like you have a choose your own adventure at these companies: * climb the ladder - try to be 'in the room' with L+1&2. Get assigned high visibility work, define and deliver some intermediate milestone, declare success, groom perception, etc. * get hired at a competitor at L+1. * start a side hustle/lifestyle/real estate business. Subscribe to the FIRE subreddit/podcasts. * have kids, develop increasingly esote…
> have kids, develop increasingly esoteric personal hobbies, get into fitness/longevity
This is the route I've taken and my mental health is much better for it. I still wonder what I'm missing out on had I stayed on the treadmill, even now, but I keep telling myself the life balance far outweighs the work balance.
Re: Engineer’s guide to career growth: Advice from my time at Stripe and Facebook
#53Based on all these sorts of articles, it feels like the only way to advance your career in the US is to get into management at some point. In the EU, and Finland where I'm from, there's nothing wrong and there's a path for being a more senior IC long term, working on more and more complex tasks. The culture is different though, there is not always the same kind of hierarchy as in the US either. I guess in the US a si…
I wonder, in big American companies, you can have a really high salary as SWE. I was under the impression that it wasn't the case in European company.
Regarding the article, it's very biased, plenty of people don't want this kind of career progression. It's more a matter of personality than culture I'd say.
Re: Engineer’s guide to career growth: Advice from my time at Stripe and Facebook
#54The real lesson is to join a company poised for rapid growth (bonus points if it turns into a mainstream name like Facebook) and getting lucky as they expand. Try that at a mature company and you'll get nowhere. Do it at the small companies that never blow up and you'll get nowhere. Even if you're in the right company at the right time, there's a good chance someone else will be given the opportunity over you.
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Re: Engineer’s guide to career growth: Advice from my time at Stripe and Facebook
#55After ten years of reading these articles and imagining what it would be like to reach that level, I now find myself there and asking "what next?". What is the path for a staff level IC maxed out on the payscale? Seeking principal is a political battle I have no interest in. And management simply isn't in my skillset. Am I stuck just slinging Javascript into retirement? Are there any other lateral moves that could pr…
I’m one level ahead of you (L7) but, like, why does there need to be something “next”? I’ll make a seven-figure TC this year. That’s enough! I spent about $50k last year, and I live in New York. My manager talks about getting me to L8 all the time and it’s exhausting. I’m done! I’ve won the income game! She is very career oriented and cares about climbing the ladder, I do not. I’ve never actually cared about “career…
I'm an old L5 and I'm quite happy to stay at that level indefinitely. I make more than most people and I don't have the skills to handle pressure at L6.
Re: Engineer’s guide to career growth: Advice from my time at Stripe and Facebook
#56Not a dig but it’s always better to be lucky than good. I’ve had an extremely lucky career but nothing like that. Two of the biggest brand blue chips then 3 really well funded startups that have been positive experiences but financially there is zero doubt I would have been better off at the big listed not faang companies.
I like to say "being good is good; being lucky is great."
I think Big Head from Silicon Valley (HBO) is the silly example of this
Re: Engineer’s guide to career growth: Advice from my time at Stripe and Facebook
#57The real lesson is to join a company poised for rapid growth (bonus points if it turns into a mainstream name like Facebook) and getting lucky as they expand. Try that at a mature company and you'll get nowhere. Do it at the small companies that never blow up and you'll get nowhere. Even if you're in the right company at the right time, there's a good chance someone else will be given the opportunity over you.
I agree with this directionally but think you're a little over-pessimistic.
First, IME it suffices to join an organization poised for rapid growth. This can still happen in large tech companies.
Second, while luck matters, there's also stuff you can do to increase your chances of being picked for career growth roles. I'm at a growth company. Recently a relatively new engineer was picked to lead a project over some more tenured, well-liked folks who wanted it. The new guy got it because he has done some really incredible work recently and then marketed it internally well enough that management (and engineering) all agreed he'd be the perfect fit. Politics, making sure that resources are allocated the way you want them, is a skill all its own.
Re: Engineer’s guide to career growth: Advice from my time at Stripe and Facebook
#58Perhaps the key piece of career growth advice is to join Facebook as a new graduate when it was a 700 person company.
And be innately good at both code and human relations. I couldn’t have handled that massive team size increase mentioned even if I was in that position. I would have probably quit to go back to technical stuff!
Re: Engineer’s guide to career growth: Advice from my time at Stripe and Facebook
#59The real lesson is to join a company poised for rapid growth (bonus points if it turns into a mainstream name like Facebook) and getting lucky as they expand. Try that at a mature company and you'll get nowhere. Do it at the small companies that never blow up and you'll get nowhere. Even if you're in the right company at the right time, there's a good chance someone else will be given the opportunity over you.
There's a little more to it: Make sure your manager, and maybe even your manager's manager, likes you. If your manager doesn't like you, change teams. If your manager's manager doesn't like your manager, you should also change teams.
The unfortunate reality of those high growth orgs is precisely that the growth leads to a lot of new managers, and as we all probably know by now, a new manager is a bad manager. Since they have no idea of what they are doing, having the best relationship with them as possible is the only thing that matters.
I've seen the best ICs, and the most effective managers, end up quitting/getting PIPed due to politics. I've seen low performance being rewarded by teams with good bonuses and no deliverable objectives in 2 years, and promotions before ever shipping anything. My evaluation of my performance, and resulting reviews and raises, have minimal correlation: But they absolutely correlate on how much my manager liked me. The more I've focused on this, the better the rewards, the product be damned.
This is extra-true in those rocket ship companies, precisely because things for the company are likely to go well regardless of short term performance: Only major failures, (like what Raylene describes in the article as avoiding being critical) can get you in trouble for actual company impact. In those cases your best bet is to be the firefighter who is also an arsonist, and find ways to sell your solutions to problems you yourself caused... but that involves far too much work.
Re: Engineer’s guide to career growth: Advice from my time at Stripe and Facebook
#60Why the assumption that everybody should grow? Some people are perfectly fine as SWE and don't want to become manager, tech lead or org leader. In some companies, you can have a very high salary as a SWE and still learn new things every day.
You have to be concerned about age discrimination or assumptions based on your career trajectory at some point if you stay in a lower level IC position. If you’re in your mid forties, still “just” a software engineer, and interviewing for new positions, this will catch up with you. How do you explain having 15-20 years experience as a software developer with no career progression?