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The Ones We Sent Away

theatlantic.com

51–60 of 76 posts

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#51
My grand parents refused to sent my severely autistic aunt to such an institution. In 1960 Germany, a Country without mentally handicapped due to the euthanasia programs a few years before, this decision ruind their lives.

The social pressure to commit your child to such institutions was very strong in addition doctors told them that it would be for the benefit of the child and they were acting selfish.

We need to be careful when passing judgement on those who did listen to why society told them.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#52
post #33

The Kennedy family, and the Royal family both have this in their past I believe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerissa_and_Katherine_Bowes-Ly...

Rosemary Kennedy is an especially horrendous example. She was not at all disabled but was having behavioural issues (maybe due to depression) and they arranged for her to have a lobotomy which was the snake-oil-du-jour and it went terribly wrong (though one wonders how a lobotomy can go right) leaving her in a most dreadful state.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this means that obese people have something wrong where they are prevented from accurately gauging portion sizes. I’m not talking like they’re stupid. I’m talking like something is wrong with their bodies and the inner satiety mechanism is broken. Counting calories sounds insane to me as a thin person. I’m not counting the calories of a fucking croissant I had for breakfast today, I just know I really preferr…

> I’m not counting the calories of a fucking croissant I had for breakfast today A croissant is very calorific

Hence the lighter lunch

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#54
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

Nah, I do get thy people want to shift blame away from their failings to control food intake and mental weaknesses thats literally in front of them - I see it often in peers struggling and failing with some aspect of life, but obesity is fully self-inflicted. As somebody currently used to mediterranean/french cuisine, and seeing what typical american eats and drinks, and how much , its definitely this. Plus idiotic c…

[deleted]

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#55
In the UK there were asylums for "imbeciles" (the term for people with learning difficulties). Although they no longer exist, there is a plot of land near me which cannot be built on because it's essentially an unmarked, mass grave for patients of the asylum. Terribly sad.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#56
post #9

My dad had an Uncle Charles (probably born around 1910) who didn't live with the family. He was what was called a "spastic" -- probably cerebral palsy. The family (out in the bush) couldn't look after him so he was committed to an institution. My dad visited him as a kid. Uncle Charles had never been taught to read or write but he was an excellent chess player and (like his brother, my grandfather) could do complex a…

>Most of 20th century Australia was tough.

White Stolen Generation here, checking in.

Can't stand the place, personally.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When asked to objectively measure their food and keep a log, fat people will lie about it, as revealed in "doubly labeled water" studies. Read the study I linked.

Yes, something is sick with fat people that’s causing them to do that. Anorexic people exaggerate how fat they are and how much (how little) they eat, and that’s clearly some kind of illness that needs medical intervention and medication as needed to get them proper. Same for fat people, I think fat people have something wrong with them where the whole process of eat food -> feel sated is off. If everything I ate fel…

> I think fat people have something wrong with them where the whole process of eat food -> feel sated is off.

This isn't something that's wrong with fat people, it's something wrong with the food environment they're in. 75 years ago your idea would have some intrinsic plausibility, as only a very small number of people had obesity. Now, in the United States, we're at a point where ~40% of adults have obesity. The explanation almost certainly lies with changes in the food environment, instead of with a huge portion of people catching an unknown disease that causes them to not know how much they're eating.

That's because in fact we do know about changes to food environment that could cause this. Since roughly the 1970s we've switched to foods that are more calorie-dense and less nutritious because they have become cheaper to produce. The relative cost of soft drinks and other sugary goods has increased much less than the cost of fresh vegetables, and in fact the industry has higher profits on these foods. I bought two liters of sugary soda for $1 the other day, that's a common offer at a grocery store near me.

If you drill down to how this is being accomplished, you'll notice that the rates of corn and soy production per person have vastly increased over the last 50 years. That's not because people are eating more tofu (which would be healthy), it's because (a) they're both used as additives or sweeteners (corn syrup), and (b) they're used as feed for animals who get turned into cheap meat at fast food restaurants. The US heavily subsidizes these crops - in fact they make up close to half of US farm land. As a result, the same (genetic) individual would almost certainly experience a much worse food environment today than in 1960.

People who aren't affected by this are those who are either (a) genetically blessed, and would hardly gain weight in any environment, or (b) are socially blessed, in that they are wealthier, live in places with a strong culture of exercise, and/or have easy access to nutritious fresh vegetables.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#58
post #8

What a story. I got to the end a complete, sobbing wreck. To send your own children away to abominable, putrid institutions at the advice of doctors is something I can't even imagine. And it really wasn't that long ago.

Definitely. I like to play a game sometimes... more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now. So I like to look at something that I think is obvious, some "best practice of our time", and wonder how it might in 100 or 150 years suddenly seem totally ludicrous to posterity with the revelation…

>more or less based on the idea that bloodletting and rectal feeding and wound probing were medical "best practices" of the past and now seem so obviously ludicrous to us now

I often remind myself that the Australian aboriginal people, the previous members of what was once a fantastic civilisation, had a sense of anti-bacterial properties of plants and things, and often treated their frail and ill in interesting ways which we, 'modern' Europeans, misinterpreted as "primitive hysteria", because everyone know: 'miasma theory was real, whereas the primitives are just cooking themselves'.

So much life lost to those who always, always know best and never question themselves, really...

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#59
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, something is sick with fat people that’s causing them to do that. Anorexic people exaggerate how fat they are and how much (how little) they eat, and that’s clearly some kind of illness that needs medical intervention and medication as needed to get them proper. Same for fat people, I think fat people have something wrong with them where the whole process of eat food -> feel sated is off. If everything I ate fel…

> I think fat people have something wrong with them where the whole process of eat food -> feel sated is off. This isn't something that's wrong with fat people, it's something wrong with the food environment they're in. 75 years ago your idea would have some intrinsic plausibility, as only a very small number of people had obesity. Now, in the United States, we're at a point where ~40% of adults have obesity. The exp…

> People who aren't affected by this are those who are either (a) genetically blessed, and would hardly gain weight in any environment, or (b) are socially blessed, in that they are wealthier, live in places with a strong culture of exercise, and/or have easy access to nutritious fresh vegetables.

or c) are disciplined enough to count their calories and stopping when they hit 2,000 kCal/day or so.

Re: The Ones We Sent Away

#60
post #9

My dad had an Uncle Charles (probably born around 1910) who didn't live with the family. He was what was called a "spastic" -- probably cerebral palsy. The family (out in the bush) couldn't look after him so he was committed to an institution. My dad visited him as a kid. Uncle Charles had never been taught to read or write but he was an excellent chess player and (like his brother, my grandfather) could do complex a…

My great-aunt was the family butler. Her parents designated her as the caretaker, and thats what she did her entire life. No marrying, no job, no nothing.

She's spent the last 20 years of her life living completely alone. She's the last one alive from her generation. Its a sad story.

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