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UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

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Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#51

Post by chillbill »

whizzter wrote: post #48
sidcool wrote: post #2

The scale of UPI payments is unprecedented. Perhaps the best payment system in the world by far. My friends who come from US are always awe struck by the pervasiveness and easy of use of UPI payments. They want it so bad in the West!

Don't confuse the check wielding Americans for the "west", for example Sweden/Norway/Finland has similar systems named Swish/Vipps/MobilePay (Phone number based with scannable QR codes,etc) that's taken over between people and smaller merchants (even young people organizing raves use Swish payments on-site despite it being potentially traceable) and the banks/companies involved in those services are now in the proces…

Oh swish is traceable and actively monitored. A few college friends of mine were organizing a party and they all chipped in a 100 kr to one guy (about 25 individuals) who got a call the next day from his bank for suspicious activity.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#52

Post by spraveenitpro »

pgeorgi wrote: post #27
ETH_start wrote: post #18

Many countries have a single dominant privately owned e-cash system. The only alternative to a future with centralized financial systems, where the individual's right to transact won't be at the total mercy of the whims of forces they don't control (e.g. a corporation which deems their credit risk as unacceptably high, a political zeitgeist that deems their unwillingness to get vaccinated as making them deserving fin…

> like the public blockchain Since this thread is about an article celebrating UPI's 10B transactions/month: That means between 4133 (28 days/month) and 3733 (31 days/month) transactions per second on average. Bitcoin is at 7 transactions per second. The bitcoin blockchain takes ~500GB these days. At UPI's transaction volume, it'd take 250TB by now, replicated at various sites. Whatever you think of blockchain, it ha…

[dead]

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#53

Post by RandomLensman »

ramraj07 wrote: post #44
egghese wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UPI is an impressive system, I use it often and it is quite empowering for billions of Indians. But calling it the "best payment system in the world"! And west wants it so bad sounds like blind exaggerations. United States is not the only western country. Scandinavian countries has Swish (2012), Vipps (2013), and Mobile pay (2015), Canada has Interac.

Others have the system but is it as good and seamless as the Indian one?

Depends on what you mean. Instant transfers up to €100k work in Europe's SEPA (and you can indeed use a QR to encode the transfer information with most bank apps, I think). And there is of course the usual contact-less payment stuff at merchants.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#54

Post by whizzter »

ramraj07 wrote: post #44
egghese wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UPI is an impressive system, I use it often and it is quite empowering for billions of Indians. But calling it the "best payment system in the world"! And west wants it so bad sounds like blind exaggerations. United States is not the only western country. Scandinavian countries has Swish (2012), Vipps (2013), and Mobile pay (2015), Canada has Interac.

Others have the system but is it as good and seamless as the Indian one?

Swish has 3 ways:

1: You follow a link on your phone that opens the app, you're prompted with the transaction sum and then sign with a code on the phone and done.

2: You scan a QR code (from sign or screen), opens a prompt in app for the sum, sign and done

3: Person-to-person, you enter their phone number(often from the phone book), amount and message, sign and done.

The signing is done via the standard app that's also used to login to the tax-office,etc so the entire population has it.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#55

Post by nopinsight »

bheadmaster wrote: post #12
bayesianbot wrote: post #8

Thailand has a similar system - you use your banking app to scan a QR code, either the code is generated and has the amount included or it's printed static paper and you write the amount yourself, then show the receipt to the merchant or they check the notification in their phone. Started in 2017, nowadays it's everywhere, I can go to local market and pay $0.5 products with it. My 12 year old daughter opened her own…

Quite convenient for tracking people's consumption choices and discriminating based on them. Hi there! We've noticed an increase of fast food purchases in the log of your account. Therefore your medical insurance premiums have risen by 200% to accomodate the change. For lessened prices, you might want to start consuming our Healthy Food(TM) lunch packs by EvilCorp, made out of bugs for the good of the environment :)

I agree than tracking detailed purchase data can lead to serious discrimination and inequity especially in a dictatorship. The use case in your example, however, seems fair:

* The person has a choice whether to consume fast food regularly. It’s their freedom, yes, but they should also accept the costs that come with their lifestyle choices. Similarly, if someone chooses to regularly drive at a daredevil speed, they should pay a higher premium.

* This is different than discrimination based on involuntary characteristics. If someone is born with genetic predisposition to get cancer, or happens to grow up in a city with high carcinogen level, it’s arguably a lot less fair to charge them extras.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#56

Post by piuantiderp »

LiamPowell wrote: post #25
bheadmaster wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite convenient for tracking people's consumption choices and discriminating based on them. Hi there! We've noticed an increase of fast food purchases in the log of your account. Therefore your medical insurance premiums have risen by 200% to accomodate the change. For lessened prices, you might want to start consuming our Healthy Food(TM) lunch packs by EvilCorp, made out of bugs for the good of the environment :)

Why could this not also be done with currently used card systems?

Mostly because the systems are old, limited in the amount of data they generate.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#57

Post by ryanjshaw »

bheadmaster wrote: post #12
bayesianbot wrote: post #8

Thailand has a similar system - you use your banking app to scan a QR code, either the code is generated and has the amount included or it's printed static paper and you write the amount yourself, then show the receipt to the merchant or they check the notification in their phone. Started in 2017, nowadays it's everywhere, I can go to local market and pay $0.5 products with it. My 12 year old daughter opened her own…

Quite convenient for tracking people's consumption choices and discriminating based on them. Hi there! We've noticed an increase of fast food purchases in the log of your account. Therefore your medical insurance premiums have risen by 200% to accomodate the change. For lessened prices, you might want to start consuming our Healthy Food(TM) lunch packs by EvilCorp, made out of bugs for the good of the environment :)

This is already a thing, but it works the other way around. Here in South Africa, the largest private short-term health insurer gives you up to 75% cash back for 'healthy food choices' [1] i.e. they effectively reduce your premiums if you signal that you make healthier choices than other people in the fund.

The law in South Africa says that short-term health insurers can't charge different people different premiums, so this is an 'add-on cashback scheme'.

They integrate with 2 big supermarket chains: when you pay with a credit card issued by the insurer's banking partner, your discounts are automatically processed on a line-by-line product level. They also integrate with a fast food chain in the same way, Nandos, and give you a discount for selecting the 'healthier' food choices on the menu.

[1] https://www.discovery.co.za/vitality/help-healthyfood-health...

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#58

Post by whizzter »

chillbill wrote: post #51
whizzter wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't confuse the check wielding Americans for the "west", for example Sweden/Norway/Finland has similar systems named Swish/Vipps/MobilePay (Phone number based with scannable QR codes,etc) that's taken over between people and smaller merchants (even young people organizing raves use Swish payments on-site despite it being potentially traceable) and the banks/companies involved in those services are now in the proces…

Oh swish is traceable and actively monitored. A few college friends of mine were organizing a party and they all chipped in a 100 kr to one guy (about 25 individuals) who got a call the next day from his bank for suspicious activity.

Interesting to hear, I've heard of Swish has been a bit on edge trying to upsell people on merchant accounts and I wouldn't be surprised if some of these reports go to the tax office.

Still for those involved they wouldn't probably care too much as long as there isn't real-time reporting to the police to get events shut down (although with laxer laws in that area that'll probably fade as an concern).

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#59

Post by 9991 »

nopinsight wrote: post #55
bheadmaster wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite convenient for tracking people's consumption choices and discriminating based on them. Hi there! We've noticed an increase of fast food purchases in the log of your account. Therefore your medical insurance premiums have risen by 200% to accomodate the change. For lessened prices, you might want to start consuming our Healthy Food(TM) lunch packs by EvilCorp, made out of bugs for the good of the environment :)

I agree than tracking detailed purchase data can lead to serious discrimination and inequity especially in a dictatorship. The use case in your example, however, seems fair: * The person has a choice whether to consume fast food regularly. It’s their freedom, yes, but they should also accept the costs that come with their lifestyle choices. Similarly, if someone chooses to regularly drive at a daredevil speed, they s…

Why should I subsidize parents who choose to raise kids in carcinogenic cities?

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#60

Post by omeysalvi »

UPI payments used to be a little hit or miss a few years ago but they have been almost flawless for me over the last year. Apps have matured and show a warning if the recipient or self network is down rather than initiating a transaction that might never complete. The only roadblock now is to figure out a way to handle large volume days such as new years when the network is overwhelmed at night.
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