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Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

wsj.com

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Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#51

Post by wkat4242 »

nradov wrote: post #50
wkat4242 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very US centric view IMO. Here the companies stick around longer. We don't do that survival of the fittest mindset here. And with the ridiculous house prices and crap wages even in tech it's not really possible to save anymore. I'd take social security over anything. My accrued benefits are something I am entitled to and I worked hard for and I wouldn't drop them without a fight.

Europe has the same survival of the fittest mindset as the USA. When revenue drops, employees are laid off and businesses go bankrupt or get sold for a pittance. Olivetti, Bull, and Nokia used to be a computing industry leaders. How many people work there now? No one is entitled to anything beyond human rights. Your social security can be cut with the stroke of a pen. In fact, if you live long enough then that will p…

When I speak of this mindset I mean the idea of "every man for himself" when it comes to the employees. The idea that everyone must be a winner or loser, they cannot just be a decent contributor and just "be". In Europe we believe much more strongly in this (except for the hardline neoliberal parties)

I didn't really mean it in terms of the corporations which compete in a much harsher macrocapitalist realm. I don't want that harshness to come down to people level. I'm very happy paying taxes for job stability and a social safety net. And other things like free healthcare even though I have enough right now to pay for privatized care.

But I should have explained better what I meant by that, yes.

Changing demographics will make it harder, but I don't think it makes social welfare impossible. There's pressure from governments but if you see the people in France for example, they are happy to pay taxes and retire early. They've just been cheated out of it by their president.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#52

Post by wkat4242 »

nradov wrote: post #29
wkat4242 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have immediate better employment options, take them without doing your old company any favors. Not sure about the US but here in Europe that's a very bad idea. If you change jobs willingly you give up your "seniority" meaning if your next job lays you off you will get no severance and also lower unemployment benefits. So caving in you would give up a huge chunk of social security. If you have a mortgage in p…

Wow that's really terrible advice. If you see a good opportunity then jump on it and don't look back. Otherwise your career will stagnate and you'll eventually get stuck somewhere with no growth potential. As for paying your mortgage, anyone working in a volatile field such as tech should prioritize saving up several months of living expenses. You have to assume that on any given day your employer might get destroyed…

> You have to assume that on any given day your employer might get destroyed by an upstart competitor and lay everyone off.

But this is exactly why we have social welfare and severance pay laws. So we don't need to :)

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#53

Post by nradov »

wkat4242 wrote: post #51
nradov wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has the same survival of the fittest mindset as the USA. When revenue drops, employees are laid off and businesses go bankrupt or get sold for a pittance. Olivetti, Bull, and Nokia used to be a computing industry leaders. How many people work there now? No one is entitled to anything beyond human rights. Your social security can be cut with the stroke of a pen. In fact, if you live long enough then that will p…

When I speak of this mindset I mean the idea of "every man for himself" when it comes to the employees. The idea that everyone must be a winner or loser, they cannot just be a decent contributor and just "be". In Europe we believe much more strongly in this (except for the hardline neoliberal parties) I didn't really mean it in terms of the corporations which compete in a much harsher macrocapitalist realm. I don't w…

Providing social welfare and early retirement will be impossible in France as the ratio of workers to retirees falls to 1.5. Retirement ages will increase and benefits will be cut. That is inevitable now regardless of who is elected president.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/french-pension-strikes-retireme...

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#54

Post by wkat4242 »

nradov wrote: post #53
wkat4242 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I speak of this mindset I mean the idea of "every man for himself" when it comes to the employees. The idea that everyone must be a winner or loser, they cannot just be a decent contributor and just "be". In Europe we believe much more strongly in this (except for the hardline neoliberal parties) I didn't really mean it in terms of the corporations which compete in a much harsher macrocapitalist realm. I don't w…

Providing social welfare and early retirement will be impossible in France as the ratio of workers to retirees falls to 1.5. Retirement ages will increase and benefits will be cut. That is inevitable now regardless of who is elected president. https://www.wsj.com/articles/french-pension-strikes-retireme...

Part of this is his refusal to increase taxes though. Which a majority of citizens don't have any issue with.

Working longer is not a major issue for me personally either especially because life expectancy is higher as the article mentions. But the French specifically do find this a problem and don't mind paying for it.

Also, this ratio drop is a temporary thing. It's a result of baby boomers retiring. Eventually they will die and the amount of retirees will be back in balance. You see this effect almost all over Europe as the cause (WWII) was affecting pretty much the whole continent.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#55

Post by ratsmack »

buggy6257 wrote: post #6

So is this one just as much of a media-created nothing burger as Quiet Quitting was? I'm betting yes...

It seems that media today is all about volume of content, which requires that controversy is created from virtually nothing to justify another pointless article.

Re: Layoffs are down, but employers are still finding ways to cut jobs

#56

Post by wkat4242 »

Detrytus wrote: post #41
wkat4242 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have immediate better employment options, take them without doing your old company any favors. Not sure about the US but here in Europe that's a very bad idea. If you change jobs willingly you give up your "seniority" meaning if your next job lays you off you will get no severance and also lower unemployment benefits. So caving in you would give up a huge chunk of social security. If you have a mortgage in p…

So, the biggest opportunity you can count on in your current job is to be laid off and get a huge severance? I guess that makes sense for some low level, incompetent employees who live in fear that their incompetence will be discovered and they will be laid off. For people who are actually good at their jobs that's a very limiting approach. But then, unions were invented for slackers.

No, it's a safety net in case that happens. Not an opportunity.
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