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Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

businessinsider.com

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Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#51

Post by lp0_on_fire »

mattw2121 wrote: post #40
lp0_on_fire wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is just my anecdotal observations, but I've seen that military veterans are extremely adept at gaming the system to their benefit. They are able to maximize disability benefits as well as GI Bill benefits. I've known and worked with multiple veterans and each one of them gamed these systems to maximum benefit. "gamed" is a very loaded term that suggests something untoward is happening as opposed to people just…

Yes, I have anecdotal evidence that people are gaming the system to get more than they deserve. I have directly observed multiple Vietnam Vets gaming the Agent Orange system to get 90-100% disability. The would visit multiple doctors to get the wording they needed to supply evidence that some health issue was related to Agent Orange. Their goal was to get a doctor to write down that a particular health issue "might"…

To be be clear, you are not a physician who has examined these Vietnam Vets and have determined that their issues are 100% unrelated to Agent Orange?

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#52

Post by mattw2121 »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #47
mattw2121 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think we should expect people to act with integrity. When they don't we should call them out. I'm all for social programs to help people in need, but I end up opposing most of the proposed social programs. Why is this? Because people game them. If people acted with integrity, and only people that truly needed assistance utilized social programs, then I think you'd find far less people oppose them.

Why is it not integrity to use the system to maximize the benefit to myself? Insurance carriers and the medical-industrial complex are notoriously byzantine, and so if anyone can navigate those waters and improve their outcomes, and extract the maximum value of care for themselves, then I think that is exactly what one should be expected to do within the bounds of the system they are given. There is nothing dishonest…

When you lie about medical conditions, that is not acting with integrity. If you believe that lying to achieve maximum personal outcomes is, in fact, acting with integrity, then our definition of integrity is vastly different.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#53

Post by Analemma_ »

room500 wrote: post #46
Analemma_ wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably have less power than you think. If they actually shut down all aviation and didn’t have a very convincing PR strategy, they’d find an infuriated public (you can’t go to your daughter’s wedding, your grandpa’s funeral, etc.), which the airlines (and the government, which has a serious interest in seeing air commerce working smoothly) would absolutely use to their advantage. Don’t forget that when ATCs ac…

It is also illegal for them to strike without going through mediation, etc. Pilots are allowed to vote to go on strike at any time (and they can have picket lines as if they were on strike) but they cannot stop showing up for work. Pilots are one of the few professions that are covered under the Railway Labor Act, so federal mediators have lots of power to reach an agreement between airlines and pilots

Right, that’s what I mean: pilots are not legally permitted to stop showing up for work. They could stop anyway in an illegal strike, which is what the ATCs did in 1981, but this would be a very high-risk gamble.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#54

Post by FrustratedMonky »

The German Crash. They instituted a preventative measure in 2015, already gone by 2017.

Low Cost is always the most important thing. Lives are cheap.

Unless there are like 2-3 crashes in a year, directly attributable to mental health, then the decision will be to let pilots suffer, it is cheaper.

From Wiki:

Aviation authorities swiftly implemented new recommendations from the European Union Aviation Safety Agency that required two authorized personnel in the cockpit at all times but, by 2017, Germanwings and other German airlines had dropped the rule.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#55

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

mattw2121 wrote: post #52
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it not integrity to use the system to maximize the benefit to myself? Insurance carriers and the medical-industrial complex are notoriously byzantine, and so if anyone can navigate those waters and improve their outcomes, and extract the maximum value of care for themselves, then I think that is exactly what one should be expected to do within the bounds of the system they are given. There is nothing dishonest…

When you lie about medical conditions, that is not acting with integrity. If you believe that lying to achieve maximum personal outcomes is, in fact, acting with integrity, then our definition of integrity is vastly different.

It was termed "gaming" and not "lying". Where are you seeing lies?

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#56

Post by mattw2121 »

mattw2121 wrote: post #40
lp0_on_fire wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is just my anecdotal observations, but I've seen that military veterans are extremely adept at gaming the system to their benefit. They are able to maximize disability benefits as well as GI Bill benefits. I've known and worked with multiple veterans and each one of them gamed these systems to maximum benefit. "gamed" is a very loaded term that suggests something untoward is happening as opposed to people just…

Yes, I have anecdotal evidence that people are gaming the system to get more than they deserve. I have directly observed multiple Vietnam Vets gaming the Agent Orange system to get 90-100% disability. The would visit multiple doctors to get the wording they needed to supply evidence that some health issue was related to Agent Orange. Their goal was to get a doctor to write down that a particular health issue "might"…

(responding to to sibling comment)

No, I'm not a doctor that has examined them. I have been told by these people that they want to maximize their disability payments and they can do that by claiming things are caused by agent orange. I've been told by them that they will shop around the diagnosis until they get something in writing they can use. I have been told by these people that they don't care if it is related to agent orange or not, as long as they can get a doctor to write it down.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#57

Post by Geisterde »

birdyrooster wrote: post #34
Geisterde wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dishonorable? Lying us into wars is dishonorable. Stop putting government bureaucrats in charge of so much money, its obvious they can't spend it appropriately, I could get a hell of a lot more bang for my buck out of spending my own money.

No I rather like that you are required to give some of your income back to the whole of society, it's a good practice to not be so closed and isolated.

Why do I need to be required? I give money to people who do good things without being required, and I'd give a lot more if I had more money. Build good FOSS and I'll send you some money, make a meme that advances the culture, I'll send you some money, down on your luck I'll send you some money, even when I was broke I'd send friends money if it meant I was rationing ramen and beans. The idea that people won't help each other out without being required seems like projection, and before there was an income tax we still had roads, rails, schools/colleges, and a military, so the idea that we need this might seem obvious, but history does not prove it out.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#58

Post by black6 »

dghughes wrote: post #20
mattw2121 wrote: post #2

"The pilots who have had their records examined are military veterans who informed the Federal Aviation Administration that they were suitable to fly, but didn't disclose that they were also receiving veterans benefits for various disabilities that could prevent them from effectively sitting in a pilot's seat." This is just my anecdotal observations, but I've seen that military veterans are extremely adept at gaming…

> I've seen that military veterans are extremely adept at gaming the system to their benefit. They are able to maximize disability benefits as well as GI Bill benefits. I'm not in the USA but really to me that's just seems like they are getting what they should. Any citizen of any country should get medical care free of charge. Military veterans whether their issue is from combat or not I think should get all the car…

A lot of us veterans were paid below the poverty line most of the time we were in the service. Disability benefits are one way many seek to get what they're owed.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#59

Post by pc86 »

millzlane wrote: post #3

I wouldn't call it harassment. It's clear it's just easier to catch the vets because they also lied to the VA. I admit they VA has it short comings. But there more vets in need then there are not,embellishing your condition to get more benefits is dishonorable. What's not surprising is pilots who lie about their health to keep making money. Especially in this economy.

"This economy" is doing pretty great at the moment. Inflation down, market up, jobs for basically anyone reading this forum are available, unless you confuse "literally being thrown at you from all angles" with unavailable.

Have you ever dealt with the VA? They will lie, cheat, and steal to deny benefits at any and all opportunities. Not saying that that makes lying to them or the government right, but how many people need to draw a straight line from their work on the deck of an aircraft carrier and their permanent hearing loss, or similar very obvious conditions, only to have the VA say "Not Service Connected" and deny all claims? It's no wonder you have people go to coaching before every VA meeting to know what keywords will get their claim denied or fast-tracked.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#60

Post by pc86 »

Geisterde wrote: post #31
snapcaster wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very personally against the war state and general US imperialism but I don't think the "bang for your buck" argument is necessarily true. I couldn't personally secure alliances with or occupations of oil rich nations that allow for me to have access to extremely cheap energy. I think I benefit from it, but that doesn't make it just

Why can't a business like exxon secure contracts for your oil? You benefit from the government doing it on a first order where the worlds oil is priced in your native currency, secondary effects may include the world hating you, the destruction of domestic production, your cultural traditions fading into obscurity, corruption, the joining of political and corporate interests. Ask your doctor before taking.

What do you mean by "secure contracts" in this context?
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