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70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

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Re: 70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

#51

Post by lamp_book »

georgeburdell wrote: post #39
markus_zhang wrote: post #13

TBF the big shots have been putting their mouths into Iran much earlier than that. The British and USSR even had a plan to invade Iran because they were close to Germany back in the day. Of course German posing itself as the liberator because it wants the oil but Britain was blocking it from do so.

Interesting aside about Germany from that time, but the word “Iran” is a reference to a people called Aryans that lived there, and the latter remains a not-uncommon name there. As a Westerner I found this a bit confusing since I don’t associate Iran with the kind of people over here that would use the term Aryan

It’s a whole thing with white supremacy in general to try to claim direct lineage with these early civilizations that are considered great as a proof of superiority [1][2]. Unfortunately much of the conceptual framework of race was not at all limited to Nazis at the time; generally Western anthropologists assumed racial superiority of whites and claimed Mesopotamia, Egypt, etc as white civilizations and evidence for that belief [3].

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_archaeology

[3] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

Re: 70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

#52

Post by fakedang »

aa_is_op wrote: post #46

That coup allowed a liberal society to flourish in Iran... now look where they are. I'd rather have US coups than any type of Iran-Russian autocratic regime.

Iran was "liberal" even before the coup, if liberal for you means ladies dressed in thigh-length skirts prancing about the big cities (mostly Teheran though).

Iran outside the big cities was still extremely religious and conservative. And dirt poor. Which is why the socialist Mossadegh government was popular, and why the Shah wasn't, and why the Islamic Revolution ultimately succeeded.

Re: 70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

#53

Post by gordian-not »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #35
gordian-not wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All war is about resources except for all the times it isn’t: religion, culture, honor/shame or ideology. Two world wars come to mind

One of those was about resources. Alsace-Lorraine may want a few words about the other

It depends on which one you refer to because both had some relation to Alsace-Lorraine.

However, the first one broke out after a complicated system of alliances together with a non compromising attitude towards nationalism (assasination ultimatum). I file that under ideology and honor.

The second one broke out due to a really insane ideology, that although talked about resources, time and time again took resources from the war itself for its death apparatus

Re: 70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

#54

Post by pjmorris »

mistrial9 wrote: post #2

it was interesting to see a documentary on World War II recently, and a key summit of Allied leadership was a meeting of Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin in Tehran. They used the royal palace there for photo ops quite a lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tehran_Conference

I, showing my lack of education, first learned of the conference from reading 'War and Remembrance', Herman Wouk. It's amazing how much legitimate history he crammed into it and its prequel, 'The Winds of War.'

Re: 70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

#55

Post by meitham »

aa_is_op wrote: post #46

That coup allowed a liberal society to flourish in Iran... now look where they are. I'd rather have US coups than any type of Iran-Russian autocratic regime.

One of the main reasons religion grows very strong in Iran eventually leading to the revolution was the Shah oppression of religious beliefs. Women were beaten in the streets if they had a scarf covering their heads. He was unpopular dictator, but of course the west like friendly dictators.

Re: 70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

#56

Post by [deleted] »

markus_zhang wrote: post #13

TBF the big shots have been putting their mouths into Iran much earlier than that. The British and USSR even had a plan to invade Iran because they were close to Germany back in the day. Of course German posing itself as the liberator because it wants the oil but Britain was blocking it from do so.

[deleted]

Re: 70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

#57

Post by [deleted] »

boringuser2 wrote: post #3

There's a certain strain of political outlook exemplified by an article like this, commonly categorized as "post-colonial", that ironically morphs itself into increasingly complex and implausible shapes to explain why all of the bad things are caused by the "first world" and nobody else has or will ever have any autonomy as an agent in the world. The other aspect of irony to this is that this worldview is cultivated…

[deleted]

Re: 70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

#58

Post by bitwize »

georgeburdell wrote: post #39
markus_zhang wrote: post #13

TBF the big shots have been putting their mouths into Iran much earlier than that. The British and USSR even had a plan to invade Iran because they were close to Germany back in the day. Of course German posing itself as the liberator because it wants the oil but Britain was blocking it from do so.

Interesting aside about Germany from that time, but the word “Iran” is a reference to a people called Aryans that lived there, and the latter remains a not-uncommon name there. As a Westerner I found this a bit confusing since I don’t associate Iran with the kind of people over here that would use the term Aryan

That's because Hitler co-opted the term "Aryan" to refer not to an Indic people but to his preferred Nordic blonde white archetype. Since then the word has been closely associated with Nazi ideals of racial superiority in the west.

Re: 70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

#59

Post by anigbrowl »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #17
enkid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US and UK didn't overthrow the Shah, they helped him stop from being overthrown. If you can't even get the basics of the historical events we're talking about correct, you shouldn't be making broad generalizations about all of history.

I said nothing about the US or UK overthrowing the Shah

You need to proofread better.

Re: 70 years ago, an Anglo-US coup condemned Iran to decades of oppression

#60

Post by shrubble »

Interesting connection is that Norman Schwarzkopf Sr. helped train both the Iranian national police and what later became SAVAK, and negotiated with the Shah to return to Iran... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Schwarzkopf_Sr.

His son was the American general that led the first Gulf War, Operation Desert Storm/Shield.

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