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OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

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Re: OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

#51

Post by mustache_kimono »

jedberg wrote: post #30

I wish Apple and Oracle would have just sorted things out and made ZFS the main filesystem for the Mac. Way back in the day when they first designed Time Machine, it was supposed to just be a GUI for ZFS snapshots. How cool would it be if we had a great GUI for ZFS (snapshots, volume management, etc.). I could buy a new external disk, add it to a pool, have seamless storage expansion. It would be great. Ah, what coul…

> How cool would it be if we had a great GUI for ZFS (snapshots, volume management, etc.).

How cool would it be if we had a great TUI for ZFS...

Live in the now: https://github.com/kimono-koans/httm

Re: OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

#52

Post by louwrentius »

crote wrote: post #29

> After the expansion completes, old blocks remain with their old data-to-parity ratio (e.g. 5-wide RAIDZ2, has 3 data to 2 parity), but distributed among the larger set of disks. New blocks will be written with the new data-to-parity ratio (e.g. a 5-wide RAIDZ2 which has been expanded once to 6-wide, has 4 data to 2 parity). Does anyone know why this is the case? When expanding an array which is getting full this wi…

The key issue is that you basically have to rewrite all existing data to regain that lost 3TB. This takes a huge amount of time and the ZFS developers have decided not to automate this as part of this feature.

You can do this yourself though when convenient to get those lost TB back.

The RAID VDEV expansion feature actually was quite stale and wasn’t being worked on afaik until this sponsorship.

Re: OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

#53

Post by Dylan16807 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #27
chungy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only entity to start a litigation cycle is Oracle, and they've either been uninterested or know they can't win. Canonical is the only entity they have any chance of going after; Canonical's lawyers already decided there was no license conflict. Linus Torvalds doesn't feel like being the guinea pig by risking ZFS in the mainline kernel. A totally reasonable position while the CDDL+GPL resolution is still ultimatel…

I wonder what Oracle would litigate over though? My understanding is that licenses are generally used by copyright holders to restrict what others can do with a work so the holder can profit off the work and/or keep a competitive advantage. Here I do not see this argument applying since the source is freely available to use and extend; the license explicitly allows someone to compile it and use it. In this case provi…

Copying and distributing those binaries is covered by copyright. You have to follow the license if you want to do it. It doesn't matter that end users could legally get the same files in some other manner. Distribution itself is part of the legal framework.

Re: OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

#54

Post by bartvk »

mrighele wrote: post #41
hinkley wrote: post #36

I’m frustrated because this feature was mentioned by Schwartz when it was still in beta. I thought a new era of home computing was about to start. It didn’t, and instead we got The Cloud, which feels like decentralization but is in fact massive centralization (organizational, rather than geographical). Some of us think people should be hosting stuff from home, accessible from their mobile devices. But the first and t…

> I’m a developer, I can afford it. None of my friends can. Mom definitely can’t. The only thing that can work for your mom and your friend is, in my opinion, a pair of disks in mirror. When the space finished, buy another box with two other disk in mirror. Anything more than this is not only too complex for the average user but also too expensive.

Even that sounds complex.

If they want network attached storage, I’d just use a single disk NAS, and remotely back it up.

Re: OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

#55

Post by jonhohle »

rincebrain wrote: post #26
Nextgrid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has the whole license incompatibility thing actually been tested/litigated in court? I heard Canonical has (at least at some point) shipped prebuilt ZFS. I understand that in-tree inclusion brings its own set of problems, but I’m just asking about redistribution of binaries - the same binaries you are allowed to build locally. It would be nice to have a precedent deciding on this bullshit argument once and for all so…

I don't think Linux would like to ship a mass of code that size that's not GPLed, even if court cases say CDDL is GPL-compatible.

It isn’t compatible because it adds additional restrictions regarding patented code. The CDDL was made to be used in mixed license distributions and only affects individual files, but the GPL taints anything linked (which is why LGPL exists). Since the terms of the CDDL can’t be respected in a GPL’d distribution, I can’t see a way for it to ever be included in the kernel repo.

I don’t think there’s any issue with canonical shipping a kmod, but similar to 3ᴿᴰ party binary drivers, it would need to be treated as a different “work”.

Re: OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

#56

Post by xoa »

jedberg wrote: post #30

I wish Apple and Oracle would have just sorted things out and made ZFS the main filesystem for the Mac. Way back in the day when they first designed Time Machine, it was supposed to just be a GUI for ZFS snapshots. How cool would it be if we had a great GUI for ZFS (snapshots, volume management, etc.). I could buy a new external disk, add it to a pool, have seamless storage expansion. It would be great. Ah, what coul…

Yes, this will always depress me, and to me personally be one of the ultimate evils of the court invented idea of "software patents". I've used ZFS with Macs sicne 2011, but without Apple onboard it's never been as smooth as it should have been and has gotten more difficult in some respects. There was a small window where we might have had a really universal, really solid FS with great data guarantees and features. All sorts of things with OS could be so much better, trivial (and even automated) update rollbacks for example. Sigh :(. I hope zvols finally someday get some performance attention so that if nothing else running APFS (or any other OS of course) on top of one is a better experience.

Re: OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

#57

Post by edmundsauto »

ErneX wrote: post #49

I’m not an expert whatsoever but what I’ve been doing for my NAS is using mirrored VDEVs. Started with one and later on added a couple more drives for a second mirror. Coincidentally one of the drives of my 1st mirror died few days ago after rebooting the host machine for updates and I replaced it today, it’s been resilvering for a while.

I’ve read this is suboptimal because you are now stressing the drive that has the only copy of your data to rebuild. what are your thoughts?

Re: OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

#58

Post by globular-toast »

jedberg wrote: post #30

I wish Apple and Oracle would have just sorted things out and made ZFS the main filesystem for the Mac. Way back in the day when they first designed Time Machine, it was supposed to just be a GUI for ZFS snapshots. How cool would it be if we had a great GUI for ZFS (snapshots, volume management, etc.). I could buy a new external disk, add it to a pool, have seamless storage expansion. It would be great. Ah, what coul…

TrueNAS? You can manage the volumes with a web UI. It has a thing you can enable for SMB shares that let you see the previous versions of files on Windows. Or perhaps I don't understand what you're after.

Re: OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

#59

Post by Terretta »

jedberg wrote: post #30

I wish Apple and Oracle would have just sorted things out and made ZFS the main filesystem for the Mac. Way back in the day when they first designed Time Machine, it was supposed to just be a GUI for ZFS snapshots. How cool would it be if we had a great GUI for ZFS (snapshots, volume management, etc.). I could buy a new external disk, add it to a pool, have seamless storage expansion. It would be great. Ah, what coul…

> How cool would it be if we had a great GUI for ZFS (snapshots, volume management, etc.). I could buy a new external disk, add it to a pool, have seamless storage expansion.

See QNAP HERO 5:

https://www.qnap.com/static/landing/2021/quts-hero-5.0/en/in...

NAS Options:

https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/?conditions=4-3

// This was about MacOS, and yes, that would be cool. But QNAP is remarkably MacOS-friendly, including Thunderbolt and Time Machine support.

Re: OpenZFS – add disks to existing RAIDZ

#60

Post by jedberg »

Terretta wrote: post #59
jedberg wrote: post #30

I wish Apple and Oracle would have just sorted things out and made ZFS the main filesystem for the Mac. Way back in the day when they first designed Time Machine, it was supposed to just be a GUI for ZFS snapshots. How cool would it be if we had a great GUI for ZFS (snapshots, volume management, etc.). I could buy a new external disk, add it to a pool, have seamless storage expansion. It would be great. Ah, what coul…

> How cool would it be if we had a great GUI for ZFS (snapshots, volume management, etc.). I could buy a new external disk, add it to a pool, have seamless storage expansion. See QNAP HERO 5: https://www.qnap.com/static/landing/2021/quts-hero-5.0/en/in... NAS Options: https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/?conditions=4-3 // This was about MacOS, and yes, that would be cool. But QNAP is remarkably MacOS-friendly, includi…

As far as I can tell I can't use that as my root filesystem, right?
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