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Today I learned that random people can send you money on PayPal and disputed it

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Re: Today I learned that random people can send you money on PayPal and disputed it

#51
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is super interesting to me. I am an amateur artist and I publish my stuff on instagram (@pamar). In the last year I had multiple cases of people contacting me out of the blue and asking if I could draw a picture of their nephew's favourite dog (it is always a dog, and it is always for their nephew whose birthday is coming soon so there is an implicit sense of urgency). I never actually pursued this stuff because…

Apparently, read this somewhere else, the scam is that they will then change their mind and ask you to refund the money (probably suggesting you send it to them to avoid the refund fee). Once you have refunded the money, they then claim the original payment. So they started with $100 and now they have $200.

Ah ok, that would make sense, thanks)

(Btw, recently I had a guy who seemed legitimate in wanting to buy my stuff... I asked him to send 120USD... to a charity and just send me the paypal receipt.

He stopped answering my messages when I asked him the post address to send the drawing to)

Re: Today I learned that random people can send you money on PayPal and disputed it

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people have credit cards in Europe. In 11 countries, the majority of people do, in fact: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/people_with_credit...

A same-bank-as-your-cash-account credit card set up for full payment at the end of the month, so there is no financing. Technically a CC, feels like a DC. Thats my experience in EU a I worked in Banking in many countries .

My reason for getting a credit card as soon as possible when I moved to Germany, was being able to switch the country of residence of some of my services to Germany, because they only accepted a local credit card as proof of residence here. Google was the main culprit in this regard. Mind you, the credit card itself is a serious joke - it's designed to be useless as far as I'm concerned. You cannot change the billing date, the app doesn't even show you the cutoff date. You cannot change the pin at all - if you request a new pin, they send you a new card.

The only good way I've found to use the card is through Paypal, ironically. At least this way I can see, down to the minute, what I spent and where, which the bank is unable or unwilling to show me.

Re: Today I learned that random people can send you money on PayPal and disputed it

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do retail banks issue dollars?

loans basically, I think?A deposits $100 you loan $97 of it to B who deposits that in their account. But A still has their $100.

Yes, also dollar creation outside of the jurisdiction of the Fed, like the Eurodollar market. These are US dollar denominated deposits in foreign countries at banks that don't have Fed accounts and can't even settle via Fedwire (instead relying on CHIPS).

The repo market is another example - and derivatives markets.

The main job of the Fed is be a clearinghouse. They don't really even know how much money is out there, let alone have omnipotent control over the supply. Monetary policy is only possible because of their role as a clearinghouse, but I digress.

Re: Today I learned that random people can send you money on PayPal and disputed it

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost nobody in Europe uses credit cards. We use debit cards, various types (immediate, deferred, ...). It was also the case 10-15 years ago. The usage has became much higher, but it was already all right by then. Except Germany, for cultural reasons.

Plenty of people have credit cards in Europe. In 11 countries, the majority of people do, in fact: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/people_with_credit...

France is listed at 40% and there are no issuers of credit cards for the general population in France across the main banks. I do not know where they took the data from, but this is far from being the reality. Idem for Poland and Germany.

Re: Today I learned that random people can send you money on PayPal and disputed it

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people have credit cards in Europe. In 11 countries, the majority of people do, in fact: https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/people_with_credit...

A same-bank-as-your-cash-account credit card set up for full payment at the end of the month, so there is no financing. Technically a CC, feels like a DC. Thats my experience in EU a I worked in Banking in many countries .

There is no credit on the cards you get in the EU, except if you ask for some. By default there is no.

A credit card is, well, a credit with rates etc. You may pay a part and the rest runs as a credit. You have a specific contact for that. Also a credit card can be issues without a backing bank account. Our cards always (in practical sense) are backed by an account.

This is not how the cards work in the EU. You have delayed debit but no credit (formally - in practice you spend the money of the bank obviously, but you have to pay in full after 30-45 days).

American Express is a system that is used by companies (for various reasons) and this IS a credit card, but people use it for business related reasons and its delivery is triggered by the company.

Re: Today I learned that random people can send you money on PayPal and disputed it

#57
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A same-bank-as-your-cash-account credit card set up for full payment at the end of the month, so there is no financing. Technically a CC, feels like a DC. Thats my experience in EU a I worked in Banking in many countries .

My reason for getting a credit card as soon as possible when I moved to Germany, was being able to switch the country of residence of some of my services to Germany, because they only accepted a local credit card as proof of residence here. Google was the main culprit in this regard. Mind you, the credit card itself is a serious joke - it's designed to be useless as far as I'm concerned. You cannot change the billing…

Which credit card did you get in Germany? (I am seriously interested in that question)

Re: Today I learned that random people can send you money on PayPal and disputed it

#58
post #48
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose, I'm not sure how far these cases get pursued but it feels like you could track the movement of money between a stolen card and the scammer's account if you really wanted. But maybe they give up after seeing a charge to PayPal

It could work within one country, but I suspect they would use stolen US credit cards to get funds on Paypal, but then transfer that money to a bank account in another country where Paypal is unlikely to be able to get it back. So the owner of the credit card should get their money back from their bank (or credit card company? Not sure how that works in the US) which might get their money back from Paypal if they wan…

Ahhhh yeah that makes sense

Re: Today I learned that random people can send you money on PayPal and disputed it

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment I use paypal when my bank rejects a credit card transaction due to fraud risk. For example this happened yesterday when I tried to make a payment to a (very reputable) educational institution for an application fee. This is by no means a high risk transaction. In fact I would go so far as to say the payment could never in a million, billion, Brazillian years be fraud, but it was rejected. But they take…

> I think some UK banks are much more trigger-happy than the global average For a good year, Barclays would ask me if my monthly Oyster purchase, for the same cost, at the same station, on roughly the same day of the month, was actually me doing it. Natwest, similarly, have blocked my "early September, about £1200, to Apple" payment for 5 years in a row now. It's infuriating.

The real travesty is that the credit card companies have had over 25 years to standardize a secure payment system and get it into browsers, yet have still failed to do so which is why we have fraud detection heuristics and their associated false positives. SET was launched in 1996, for crying out loud:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Electronic_Transaction

Re: Today I learned that random people can send you money on PayPal and disputed it

#60

I know that FedNow isn't really a digital currency system and I'm not making any assumptions about how it's going to play out, but I hope one consequence of it is that sites like Paypal start seeing a lot more competition and lose a lot of power. I know other countries have similar systems, but the US being a holdout and having terrible money transfer options despite being a massive market in the tech space maybe (ho…

> I hope one consequence of it is that sites like Paypal start seeing a lot more competition and lose a lot of power.

PP recently created their own scam^Wstablecoin PYUSD[1]

[1] https://www.paypal.com/us/digital-wallet/manage-money/crypto...

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