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This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

thisamericanlife.org

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Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#51

Post by tptacek »

twoodfin wrote: post #46
tptacek wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we cut this thread short and just stipulate that all the major media outlets have had slipups in the past? I think we can all see where this particular argument leads, and it's nowhere productive.

Sure. I'll just say that it would be a rare major journalism outlet in this country that wouldn't post a retraction like this when this kind of fabrication came to light. I don't think PRI has behaved particularly impressively here.

I think we can probably all safely agree that they've cleared the bar without arguing by how much. PRI, by the way, has no oversight over TAL; you mean WBEZ.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#52

Post by silverlake »

Jun8 wrote: post #26

From a naive viewpoint: Why is all this reporting about factory conditions focus on Apple, i.e. Foxconn? Is there proof that factories operated by Foxconn are worse than the typical Chinese factory? Or is Apple pushing them to Draconian measures, e.g. guards with guns, child workers, etc.? How's this any different from any other Made in China electronics product? EDIT: The replies are aligned with what I was thinking…

It's not. Critics need to generate media attention by attacking a large popular brand. The same thing happened to Walmart. Target does exactly the same things (low pay, poor benefits, kill small downtowns), but Walmart is bigger and draws more media attention.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#53

Post by ceejayoz »

twoodfin wrote: post #46
tptacek wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we cut this thread short and just stipulate that all the major media outlets have had slipups in the past? I think we can all see where this particular argument leads, and it's nowhere productive.

Sure. I'll just say that it would be a rare major journalism outlet in this country that wouldn't post a retraction like this when this kind of fabrication came to light. I don't think PRI has behaved particularly impressively here.

Posting is one thing. E-mailing every member is another.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#54

Post by tptacek »

untog wrote: post #47
tptacek wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "truth" in his story? How do you know? The most dangerous thing you can do with a story like this is try to pick apart the things that seem true; your brain is wired to make the wrong things seem authentic.

When did he pick apart things in this story that seem true? This is hardly the first piece of evidence suggesting that factory conditions in China aren't great- there is a wealth of evidence. If you want something to watch, check out China Blue, for example. The point is that this will do damage to the existing, unchallenged evidence, because it'll have some kind of guilty by association attached to it.

"What's really tragic here is that the truth in Mr. Daisey's story will get dragged down by the weight of his lies."

I don't think his story taints any other particular investigation of Foxconn. But I think his whole story is now hazmat.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#55

Post by tptacek »

ceejayoz wrote: post #53
twoodfin wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I'll just say that it would be a rare major journalism outlet in this country that wouldn't post a retraction like this when this kind of fabrication came to light. I don't think PRI has behaved particularly impressively here.

Posting is one thing. E-mailing every member is another.

Emailing every member is easy to do when you have every member's email address. Their last mail to me, 7 days ago:

Towards our 10,000 member goal, we heard from 9,025 folks over the last eight days, and we couldn't be more grateful. Some of the Summer Pledge Drive has been eliminated, but with your help, we can still eliminate some more.

'twoodfin is right to be cautious about valorizing WBEZ.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#56

Post by mmaunder »

klenwell wrote: post #16
mmaunder wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel very bad for this american life because they're brilliant. Extremely unfortunate. I have noticed a drum beating on NPR since the piece aired regarding Apple's working conditions, on the news and the various podcasts. Will be interesting to watch for a change in tone.

The follow-up airing this weekend sounds more interesting than the original piece, which I didn't even finish. Daisey's whole approach just struck me as slapdash and self-indulgent. I find the Planet Money team's approach (whose stories are often featured on This American Life) much more insightful.

True, Planet Money rocks my world. Check out the Econtalk podcast with Russ Roberts for where they get some of their inspiration and data. It's a much deeper economics dive, hour long and tends to be Hayekian as opposed to PM which is firmly Keynesian.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#57

Post by aaronharnly »

VMG wrote: post #13

from http://www.marketplace.org/topics/life/ieconomy/acclaimed-ap... : I pressed Cathy to confirm other key details that Daisey reported. Did the guards have guns when you came here with Mike Daisey? With each question I got the same answer from Lee. “No,” or “This is not true.” Daisey claims he met underage workers at Foxconn. He says he talked to a man whose hand was twisted into a claw from making iPads. He descri…

Has no one considered the possibility that this Chinese citizen, who lives and works in China, might not be well served by asserting the truth of Daisey's story?

His apology seems to concede a fair amount of dramatization, and he didn't (in advance of hearing the Ira/Mike conversation) appear to assert the truth of those specific parts of the story. But supposing he did stand by some of these details, we'd have a he said/she said, with strong incentives on each side.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#58

Post by rbarooah »

evan_ wrote: post #38

I predict that the anti-Apple movement will say that the story was mostly true as told, and any denials by the Chinese interpreter were politically motivated, forced by Foxconn and the Chinese government.

Mike Daisey admits to the fabrication.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#59

Post by mjs »

tptacek wrote: post #2

I'm a Chicago Public Radio member and just got this in my email. Wow: I’m writing to tell you that tonight, This American Life and Marketplace will reveal that a story that we broadcast on This American Life this past January contained significant fabrications. We’re retracting that story because we can’t vouch for its truth, and this weekend's episode of our show will detail the errors in the story, which was an exc…

During the original piece, host Ira Glass gives the impression that they were originally sceptical, saying that they "actually spent a few weeks checking everything that he says in his show." So I guess they need to check a bit harder next time...

Full quote: "When I saw Mike Daisey perform this story on stage, when I left the theater I had a lot of questions. I mean, he's not a reporter, and I wondered, did he get it right? And so we've actually spent a few weeks checking everything that he says in his show."

From http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/454/t... or http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.thi...

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#60

Post by jlarocco »

yajoe wrote: post #12
tptacek wrote: post #2

I'm a Chicago Public Radio member and just got this in my email. Wow: I’m writing to tell you that tonight, This American Life and Marketplace will reveal that a story that we broadcast on This American Life this past January contained significant fabrications. We’re retracting that story because we can’t vouch for its truth, and this weekend's episode of our show will detail the errors in the story, which was an exc…

I don't know about the specifics of this report, but Marketplace last month had another emotional story turn out to be false. Perhaps that is what prompted Rob? Retraction: http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/commentary/returni... Story about the fabriaction: http://jimromenesko.com/2012/02/02/marketplace-scolded-for-a... I listen to Marketplace everyday, and I just donated to both groups because it takes a lot…

I'm sorry, but the marketplace slip up seems pretty inexcusable.

I could see if the guy had maybe not earned some medals he claimed he had, or if he was lower rank than he claimed, but he claimed to be a returning veteran and was never even in the army.

Maybe it's just me, but verifying his army background and veteran status would be the first thing I would check going with a story titled, "Returning veteran has few marketable skills"

Admitting they were wrong is nice, but that's a pretty big wrong that was easily avoidable by doing even a little checking.

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