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I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

theatlantic.com

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Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#51

Post by [deleted] »

philwelch wrote: post #50
cletus wrote: post #30

Reading through this list of anecdotes I had mixed emotions. I spent a significant amount of time unemployed 10+ years ago in the post-dotcom recession in the UK and it was awful. This was partly due to the highly unregulated nature of UK IT recruitment but the problem was the lack of jobs. Still, a see some problems in this article. Like "I graduated with a philosophy major in 2008". Bzzzzt. Sorry, you made choices.…

Well, one quibble: in that photo of Steve Jobs, if you look carefully behind him you can see a tremendously big pair of stereo speakers.

[deleted]

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#52

Post by simonsarris »

einhverfr wrote: post #46
cletus wrote: post #30

Reading through this list of anecdotes I had mixed emotions. I spent a significant amount of time unemployed 10+ years ago in the post-dotcom recession in the UK and it was awful. This was partly due to the highly unregulated nature of UK IT recruitment but the problem was the lack of jobs. Still, a see some problems in this article. Like "I graduated with a philosophy major in 2008". Bzzzzt. Sorry, you made choices.…

I studied history with no plan for what to do in the real world. Now I run my own consulting business and am planning on bootstrapping it into a software business. Look: You can get a job by making choices that HR departments like or you can go and carve out an economic niche for yourself. Your degree isn't important in the latter so much as your ability to think critically. Perhaps humanities degrees (including a ph…

I have a degree in Computer Science and Philosophy[1] (graduated in 2010) and I think the second part of that degree has helped me more in interviews and in life than the first part by a wide margin.

It put me in a very interesting position when applying and interviewing because (apparently) nobody ever sees that degree or combination and they always ask about it. I was able to wax eloquent about how I love writing, debating and clear communication. How I have a firmer grasp of logic because of my (more technical) philosophy courses and how it has allowed me to relate better and communicate more effectively.

Good communication and writing writing skills, as well as a willingness to write are I think (and many have seemed to agree) in short supply in the computing fields and I think that almost any humanities degree would add an enormous amount of value to a person, provided they can do the computing parts of their job as well!

[1] This means that I completed all of the requirements to get either degree, but didn't have the sheer credit hours to literally get two pieces of paper. My diploma could just as easily read "Philosophy and Computer Science" instead.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#53

Post by jiggy2011 »

pixelcort wrote: post #44
jiggy2011 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big part of the problem is that in the UK people are encouraged by society to study what they are interested in ("it's about expanding your mind") and told that having any degree will give them a big advantage over the competition regardless. This may have been true 30 years ago but it isn't today. I remember some time ago I was out for a drink with a number of students who were completing a course in film…

I really wonder if it's not true today anymore, that college isn't for the liberal arts and is merely a career training endeavor. In fact I'd argue the opposite: that college bound students and their parents have the wrong expectation that going to college is merely a job preparation strategy. This may be culturally specific to English-based colleges, but often for a US-based 4-year degree, you spend half your time l…

The issue I think is that the perception in the past was that studying a "liberal arts" type degree would make you part of the educated elite which on it's own had value in terms of job seeking.

Also I think people who did these kind of courses were more likely to come from richer backgrounds and therefor have better connections for gaining employment.

There is a big difference between the UK and the US in that when you do a degree in the UK it is all focused on one area. You usually get very few options to study anything outside that area and if you do it will be a couple of modules in your final year.

I for one would actually prefer a more US style system although arguably we have the variety for 16-18 year old and call it A levels.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#54

Post by brandall10 »

cletus wrote: post #30

Reading through this list of anecdotes I had mixed emotions. I spent a significant amount of time unemployed 10+ years ago in the post-dotcom recession in the UK and it was awful. This was partly due to the highly unregulated nature of UK IT recruitment but the problem was the lack of jobs. Still, a see some problems in this article. Like "I graduated with a philosophy major in 2008". Bzzzzt. Sorry, you made choices.…

I was slightly offput by this comment "the financial costs of moving (which are high - I've definitely spent hundreds on new drinking glasses alone!)"

Who spends hundreds on drinking glasses when they're financially strapped? That mindset percolates outward.

I think a good part of this outlook comes from kids who came from upper middle class backgrounds, went to good schools, and expect to repeat the success of their parents and live accordingly without much sacrifice.

Full disclosure: I fit that description. And like you I was laid off in 2001 and looked for other programming jobs to no avail for months... I remember my mindset well, strongly that of the victim. I was paralyzed to do anything other than cold call companies/recruiters, spruce up the resume on monster/dice, and feel sorry for myself over and over again on a daily basis. It only happened that a friend was working at a company I had an offer from in '99 and they were happy to give me a job. "Yes, dodged a bullet, got lucky!" And that's all it was, luck. I certainly didn't make it happer for myself. I've been working at that company for 11 years and for the most part it's been a ho-hum experience; I am actively working to move on to something better by doing freelance work on the side for cheap to build up a portfolio. I wonder how my life would have turned out if that safety net hadn't been there.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#55

Post by jandrewrogers »

tseabrooks wrote: post #2

I'm 27 so I think I'm just a couple years outside of this generation that can't find jobs. That said, I'm pretty sick and damned tired of seeing lists of things keeping these 20-somethings from succeeding. It's time for people to man up (Though I'm not excluding women) and take responsibility for themselves and stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The problem isn…

Another aspect of this that I noticed among many of my own friends when we were in our 20s and poor is that most people from a middle-class background have no idea how to live inexpensively. Many other problems follow from this chronic overspending when they cannot afford it. The thing is, they thought they were being "frugal" but the reality is that they were not even close. If you look, for example, how most immigrants bootstrap from nothing their spending patterns and priorities look very different and they usually manage to save quite a bit of money over time.

Savings plays a huge role in flexibility. When you are in your 20s without family, it is eminently possible to bootstrap enough savings from a really crappy jobs and even temp jobs to have the flexibility to move if you need to and still live an okay lifestyle even in a new city. Been there, done that. Very modest but comfortable. You would not want to live this way forever but it is only a bootstrap. It also instills good habits toward not buying a lot of "stuff" once you have a good paying job.

I will add that this same pattern applies to people with very good jobs too. I know people making six-figures that swear they are just getting by, paycheck to paycheck, with no savings. Their definition of "absolute necessity" gets stretched to the breaking point but they literally do not know how to live on less money. I do not have much sympathy in cases like this but it is also part of a larger pattern of people militantly refusing to live below their means.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#56

Post by InclinedPlane »

drats wrote: post #26

As I see it the baby boomers, rightfully worried about their retirement, are going to camp out in most top positions longer than we expected or was normal in the past. This will inhibit upward mobility of younger people for quite some time (retirement ages are creeping up all across the Western world). Additionally they are demanding loyalty and commitment in the workplace from the younger generation for part-time an…

I don't buy into this logic. I'm sure it has an effect, but I don't see how a Baby Boomer working a job is worse for the economy than a Baby Boomer suckling on the government teat on retirement. It's not a zero sum game, if someone is doing productive work I think that's a net win for the economy.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#57

Post by jiggy2011 »

rglover wrote: post #27

I think one of the problems is that a lot of "twenty something's" still believe in their degree. A B.A. means pretty much nothing. As a recent graduate (about six months ago), I can honestly say that not letting my degree do the work for me was the smartest decision I've ever made. Grads need to realize that there are thousands holding the same, useless piece of paper. If you want to make money, teach yourself some c…

It's not really that easy to just "teach yourself some cool shit and hit the road".

We seem to have this attitude here because you can just read a "ruby in 10 days" type guide online and start hacking away.

This just isn't true in many other industries or professions where you would need to either incur significant costs or have completed an apprenticeship in order to practice.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#58

Post by kappaknight »

asolove wrote: post #4
tseabrooks wrote: post #2

I'm 27 so I think I'm just a couple years outside of this generation that can't find jobs. That said, I'm pretty sick and damned tired of seeing lists of things keeping these 20-somethings from succeeding. It's time for people to man up (Though I'm not excluding women) and take responsibility for themselves and stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The problem isn…

It's hard to point blame in one specific direction. Yes, you are right they should take responsibility. But these are people who grew up doing the "responsible" thing and listening to the advice of teachers and parents. They made good grades whether or not they learned, did extracurricular activities whether or not they enjoyed them, and otherwise put aside any sort of personal decision-making for 21 years, in the id…

Doing what you like is a luxury. Most people need to just do what pays.

Re: I'd Love to Move, but I Can't

#60

Post by rbarooah »

ryaf wrote: post #15
tseabrooks wrote: post #2

I'm 27 so I think I'm just a couple years outside of this generation that can't find jobs. That said, I'm pretty sick and damned tired of seeing lists of things keeping these 20-somethings from succeeding. It's time for people to man up (Though I'm not excluding women) and take responsibility for themselves and stop complaining about externalities keeping them from success and just go out and succeed. The problem isn…

This. I'm 26 and I had a decent paying software job in Florida. But I wanted to move up to New York so I convinced my job to let me work remotely. I made the move 2 months after they allowed me to work remotely. I sold a bunch of my possessions, made sure everything could fit into my car, gave away my furniture to my mom, and did the entire move for around $800 of my own money. (I had a place to stay when I got up he…

I assume you are aware that software is currently a booming industry, unlike most of the rest of the economy (other notable exceptions being finance and medicine).
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