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Homebrew Is Awesome

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Re: Homebrew Is Awesome

#51

Post by sneak »

mikemcquaid wrote: post #23
mixmastamyk wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. What about the default telemetry?

The default telemetry is: - (still) not sent until we notify you that it's opt-out - moved (this year) from Google Analytics to our InfluxDB instance (destroying all existing GA data) - only kept for 365 days - contains no PII - no longer even attempts to identify individual users - necessary to be opt-in in order for us to be able to effectively run the project

Imagine if you entered a party that had a big sign that says you consent to be groped by entering the venue.

"But we notified you!"

Consent does not work that way.

It keeps being pointed out that this is a nonprofit run by volunteers - this simply underscores your utter lack of a legitimate business use case for spying on your users.

The only reason people insist on opt-out (ie nonconsensual) telemetry is because they know they don't actually have consent and their ingest data would drop like a rock if they had to, you know, check with their users for consent before uploading their usage. It's the old "she never said stop!" dodge.

Consent matters.

Re: Homebrew Is Awesome

#52

Post by Macha »

happymellon wrote: post #47
mikemcquaid wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does work, it's just not supported because the experience is worse. Open source (Homebrew included) is full of lots of plans: it's lacking people willing and able to execute on those plans. When or if that happens: Homebrew will support installations in more locations.

How is the experience worse if it works? The other explanations imply that it may not work due to hard coded paths.

Because of the hardcoded paths, the precompiled artifacts will not work. Because of this, homebrew will need to run the build script locally. This means that the process takes longer, which is what makes the experience worse.

Re: Homebrew Is Awesome

#53

Post by hirvi74 »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #24
bartvk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's great is that it can completely remove software from macOS. For instance, Google Chrome litters the filesystem and is not easy to clean up manually. Homebrew however can remove all traces by passing the --zap option: brew uninstall --zap google-chrome You can view the formula as follows: brew info --github google-chrome Look for the zap stanza, there's a whole list of folders.

There’s also AppCleaner for those looking for a GUI.

I use them both at the same time for most GUI apps. I have noticed that --zap tends to leave a lot of remnants still that AppCleaner sometimes picks up.

Re: Homebrew Is Awesome

#54

Post by hirvi74 »

bartvk wrote: post #11
wellthisisgreat wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homebrew is among the top-3 reasons I enjoy developing on Mac. Thanks a lot for your work!

What's great is that it can completely remove software from macOS. For instance, Google Chrome litters the filesystem and is not easy to clean up manually. Homebrew however can remove all traces by passing the --zap option: brew uninstall --zap google-chrome You can view the formula as follows: brew info --github google-chrome Look for the zap stanza, there's a whole list of folders.

I've noticed that --zap tends to leave a lot of traces still. Is it application specific?

I'll give an example:

If I run brew uninstall --zap vmware-fusion and then brew install vmware-fusion VMware Fusion can still pick up various bits from its previous installation (like how my 30-day free trial has expired).

If I drag VMware Fusion into AppCleaner, then run brew uninstall --zap vmware-fusion, then run AppCleaner, when I reinstall VMware Fusion, I can restart the 30-day free trial all over again.

I know this because I have been doing this on an as needed basis for like 5 years now ;).

Re: Homebrew Is Awesome

#55

Post by mikemcquaid »

sneak wrote: post #51
mikemcquaid wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The default telemetry is: - (still) not sent until we notify you that it's opt-out - moved (this year) from Google Analytics to our InfluxDB instance (destroying all existing GA data) - only kept for 365 days - contains no PII - no longer even attempts to identify individual users - necessary to be opt-in in order for us to be able to effectively run the project

Imagine if you entered a party that had a big sign that says you consent to be groped by entering the venue. "But we notified you!" Consent does not work that way. It keeps being pointed out that this is a nonprofit run by volunteers - this simply underscores your utter lack of a legitimate business use case for spying on your users. The only reason people insist on opt-out (ie nonconsensual) telemetry is because the…

Ah sneak, posting about analytics in every Homebrew thread. I thought you might like that we moved to InfluxDB but: no.

A new low for you by literally comparing an open source project gathering analytics to sexual assault and rape this time.

Re: Homebrew Is Awesome

#56

Post by mikemcquaid »

justinclift wrote: post #40

Doesn't S3Scanner seem like a weird thing to have in the Homebrew "core" repository, rather than be in its own tap?

If it’s open source, doesn’t have a hilariously overinvolved and unreliable build process, is used by more than just the author: it’s best in the main repository.

Re: Homebrew Is Awesome

#57

Post by sneak »

mikemcquaid wrote: post #55
sneak wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if you entered a party that had a big sign that says you consent to be groped by entering the venue. "But we notified you!" Consent does not work that way. It keeps being pointed out that this is a nonprofit run by volunteers - this simply underscores your utter lack of a legitimate business use case for spying on your users. The only reason people insist on opt-out (ie nonconsensual) telemetry is because the…

Ah sneak, posting about analytics in every Homebrew thread. I thought you might like that we moved to InfluxDB but: no. A new low for you by literally comparing an open source project gathering analytics to sexual assault and rape this time.

Rather than ad hominem, perhaps you could address the fundamental consent issue?

It doesn't matter how you store the data obtained without consent.

What you are doing is fundamentally unethical, and you only get away with it because most of your users are unaware that you are doing it.

I post about it because your users deserve to know what you are silently using their computer to do each time they install a package. You have fooled them (and yourself) with this distraction about a "notice".

Re: Homebrew Is Awesome

#58

Post by phplovesong »

Homebrew is horrible. Want to update a single package? All hell breaks loose. Suddenly some weird version of Perl is being installed, and after that python is getting autoupdated. Make no sense at all. pkg-src is a better option.

Re: Homebrew Is Awesome

#59

Post by mixmastamyk »

mikemcquaid wrote: post #55
sneak wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if you entered a party that had a big sign that says you consent to be groped by entering the venue. "But we notified you!" Consent does not work that way. It keeps being pointed out that this is a nonprofit run by volunteers - this simply underscores your utter lack of a legitimate business use case for spying on your users. The only reason people insist on opt-out (ie nonconsensual) telemetry is because the…

Ah sneak, posting about analytics in every Homebrew thread. I thought you might like that we moved to InfluxDB but: no. A new low for you by literally comparing an open source project gathering analytics to sexual assault and rape this time.

Colorful imagery aside, this kind of response is a "new low" unfortunately.
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