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Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

developers.redhat.com

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Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#51

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

j16sdiz wrote: post #32
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Podman is a Docker implementation without the architectural bugs.

and twice the networking bugs

It has this awkward situation where CNI is old and boring and missing just a couple thing, while Netavark/Aardvark is the new shiny Wayland of container networking but can't handle half of the use cases CNI used to handle just fine.

I wanted to have a separate network on a bridge, visible to the host, where IP addresses and DNS would be managed by a dedicated DHCP/DNS service (like what dnsmasq can do). Well imagine, unless you jump through a whole lot of hoops and use macvlan and whatnot, netavark just plain cannot do it.

I heard one could make a netavark plugin quite easily, but interfaces for DNS and IPAM are missing from the puzzle.

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#52

Post by hahn-kev »

LeBit wrote: post #39
quickthrower2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is Kubernetes would be the way to go here? You can run k3s locally.

Or kind. And use Skaffold or Tilt to manage it all. This setup makes Docker Compose look like a toy. Developers should stop with this impedence mismatch of using Docker Compose when developing and K8s in prod.

Man, compose can be so much simpler for local dev though, you can easily bind local files and you don't need a fancy setup for local dev. We just switched from docker compose to k8s so that it was closer to prod, but I think if we had to do it again I'm not sure I'd bother.

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#53

Post by ac130kz »

I've tried Podman for a few weeks, and I have to say that first experience is fine, I get that there are some differences in the setup. Aaaand then you come across all sorts of the small and medium cross-incompatibilities (flags, parameter handling, different syntax parsing, drivers..), long standing bugs, Podman Compose is at least subjectively poorly supported/aims at compatibility at all, the list goes on. Docker itself isn't perfect, but it's totally not such a mess.

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#54

Post by Hamcha »

nullify88 wrote: post #10

Recently switched back to Docker Desktop from Podman Desktop since Docker Desktop seems to integrate better with Windows. Good progress though and I'll revisit it again soon.

I've been having an ok time with Rancher Desktop, I stopped using Docker Desktop on Windows after they forced me to update to a known broken build with no way to go back (unless I paid for their enterprise version)

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#55

Post by LeBit »

polski-g wrote: post #43
LeBit wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or kind. And use Skaffold or Tilt to manage it all. This setup makes Docker Compose look like a toy. Developers should stop with this impedence mismatch of using Docker Compose when developing and K8s in prod.

It's not about just running the containers. It's that applications are distributed with a docker compose file as the setup medium.

What do you mean by that? You use Docker Compose to distribute to production? Into what?

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#56

Post by LeBit »

hahn-kev wrote: post #52
LeBit wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or kind. And use Skaffold or Tilt to manage it all. This setup makes Docker Compose look like a toy. Developers should stop with this impedence mismatch of using Docker Compose when developing and K8s in prod.

Man, compose can be so much simpler for local dev though, you can easily bind local files and you don't need a fancy setup for local dev. We just switched from docker compose to k8s so that it was closer to prod, but I think if we had to do it again I'm not sure I'd bother.

With Skaffold, you can bind (or rather transparently sync) local files to a Pod.

I agree the initial setup is more difficult with a K8s local dev than with a Docker Compose local dev.

But the impedance mismatch makes using Docker Compose a bad idea when you deploy to a K8s cluster.

The secrets management is different. The way pods talk to each other is different. App-level configuration and updates are different. There is so much that diverges, that you end up with two independent systems. One for dev and one for prod. This is not good.

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#57

Post by bdcravens »

sonu27 wrote: post #11
nullify88 wrote: post #10

Recently switched back to Docker Desktop from Podman Desktop since Docker Desktop seems to integrate better with Windows. Good progress though and I'll revisit it again soon.

Even Docker Desktop for Mac works pretty great and they improved the startup. Not really had issues to warrant switching.

For several months I've used colima. It seems more performant, and I really don't need the UI. That said, my use cases are pretty basic (mostly just web apps with Docker Compose)

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#58

Post by _ix »

esamatti wrote: post #12

Anyone using Podman on a macOS? How's the experience compared to Docker Desktop?

Just joined a team and received an M1 Pro laptop but licensed docker isn't in the budget... tl;dr a bit early to tell, but I think it works.

podman-desktop is pretty rough, but it gave me enough confidence to start using podman generally. podman-mac-helper solved a few docker compatibility problems I had in previous attempts in 2021 and 2022.

It seems like my problems getting started with podman just last week wete mainly due to the abundance of already outdated tutorials. Maybe those who are more active in this space can weigh-in, but fixes and common work arounds documented as recently as 6 months ago aren't necessary an longer? For me, podman works without nearly as much fuss as I remember.

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#59

Post by richardpetersen »

skilled wrote: post #41
Hippocrates wrote: post #21

This reads like an AI generated article. It covers some differences like pulling images with a gui vs a cli. Ok… thats incredibly unimportant.

It might be because an intern wrote it? I read it myself and I definitely think it’s not an easy read, borderline not make any sense at all, but I don’t think it’s AI because as crazy as it may be, I think an AI would have done a better job at this.

Ouch lol

Re: Reasons to Drop Docker for Podman

#60

Post by bdcravens »

infinitezest wrote: post #33
esamatti wrote: post #12

Anyone using Podman on a macOS? How's the experience compared to Docker Desktop?

I've been using orbstack on macos and its been wonderful. Much faster than docker for. Mac.

May not be a concern of yours, but eventually it will have the same licensing concerns as Docker Desktop. (Free now, but only during beta; business use will require licensing)
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