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Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.
Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
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Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Clearly they had the best of intentions, but Oregon's politicians are terrible at implementing anything properly. Open drug markets, increased property and retail thefts and a homeless population explosion are what happened...when They always claimed to follow other successful implementations like Portugal, but the law was no where near what they implemented as far as requiring treatment. Whats funny is the Governor…
That's fair, and certainly a problem, but I don't think the solution is "let's just go back to throwing everyone in jail". We know from long experience that isn't working.
> but I don't think the solution is "let's just go back to throwing everyone in jail".
As someone who lives in Oregon we need some way to force addicts into treatment. Jail worked in some cases because it meant that some addicts no longer had access to the drugs they were addicted to. But even better would be more of a therapeutic environment where they actually get treatment for addiction. However, it seems that most addicts aren't going into treatment willingly (big surprise) and this is why we're seeing so much trouble here. I voted for 110, but now I'm thinking that was a mistake. It either needs some major revisions to enable forcing drug users into treatment or it just needs to be repealed (the former would be better, I think).
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#53If you decriminalize hard drugs, all that happens is that addicts stay addicts, have a higher likely hood of becoming homeless and higher chance of dying. Hard drugs for the most part outside of controlled environments have almost no positive qualities. Drugs like cannabis have medical attributes and can provide benefits. People addicted to hard drugs require treatment, leaving them to their own devices is likely to…
Referencing Portugal feels weird. Most reports I see are still very favorable to the outcomes they are seeing, is that changing?
Decriminalizing doesn't change people with a drug problem into not having a drug problem, true. It does, at least, free them from also having a legal problem. Idea being that they can seek and get treatment for their drug problem, now. Something they can't do when it is criminal. (Indeed, reading the Wikipedia page for Portugal shows increased treatments as their first bullet in favor.)
I'd also guess that it makes it easier for treatments to be offered. As, right now, offering help there is basically aiding illegal activity.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> though I'm not convinced this is as large a problem as you might think it is Several states have legalized marijuana, and surprise, marijuana usage is at an all-time high (no pun intended). People who would have never tried it before now do so because the stigma is gone, and it's trivial to get. This part is always lost on the "legalize everything" crowd. While marijuana might be relatively benign, other drugs are…
It's a novelty right now. In Amsterdam when you go to a music festival you will not see a lot of pod heads. I was one of the few and I'm a German! Look at Portugals drug history. Legalization saved that country!
> In Amsterdam when you go to a music festival you will not see a lot of pod heads
I could be wrong, but I don't believe marijuana is as-legal in Amsterdam as it is in California for example. In CA, there's very few enforced restrictions of where you can get it and where you can use it.
> Look at Portugals drug history. Legalization saved that country!
It doesn't appear so[1]. It appears they are struggling with the same issues - dramatic rise in drug use.
It's not really effective to just simply legalize all drugs. I agree with most, we shouldn't throw people in prison for drug use. No, instead we need to throw them into mandatory rehabilitation programs.
The goals of a decriminalization program shouldn't be to increase average citizen's drug use. But that's what happens without some sort of rehab/treatment program.
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-dru...
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#55I maintain now (as I did when Measure 110 passed in Oregon, and in the discussions here in HN) that decriminalizing drugs would lead the state, and especially Portland of course, to a terrible and predictable outcome. Many supporters of the measure believed that it was the objectively right choice. Decriminalize, and get people to treatment instead of locking them up. The sad thing is that you can make all the piecew…
The people I fear the most are people who are 100% sure they're doing the right thing. This comment section is full of that - "no, this is a good policy and it's just the implementation that's wrong."
Sure, maybe? But maybe it's just a bad policy? Maybe we could adjust the implementation? Maybe we can look at other places were things are better?
Maybe a bit of shame could be helpful, too. SF and Portland have turned into a national punch line. That's shameful.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#56From the last time I drove through Oregon, it kind of felt like they had already done this.
Oregon voted to decriminalize hard drugs in the 2020 election, according to the article.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#57I always thought decriminalization was in some ways the worst of both worlds. On one hand, keeping the production and trade side illegal continues to perpetuate the underground culture and fund international cartels. Meanwhile their market base increases due to fewer people being afraid of being caught, the product quality is still completely unregulated. Users still need to stay embedded in an an unscrupulous underw…
Without legal sales, opiate users get trash street drugs that vary anywhere between unsafe and catastrophically dangerous. Furthermore, there's absolutely none of the benefits like being able to encourage them to keep their used needles in sharps containers like you might be able to do, if they had to drop off the full ones before they got their next fix. We don't get the reduction in violence we'd see from legal sal…
Without legal sales, cartels will keep doing cartel things. Also where will money for treatment programs come from? It will always be at risk of being cut by fiscally conservative governments, vs legal sales that can be taxed to fund amelioration efforts.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#58Would we expect early results to be encouraging? There's a lot of inertia in something like this. The damage is already done for anyone locked up on a drug charge. And reallocating resources from prisons to diversionary programs will take at least a generation.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Either way, there are also undoubtedly people with substance abuse problems who are afraid to get help due to the possibility of incarceration. Removing that fear can lead to more people getting into treatment programs. There are also people that only get help due to the threat of incarceration (e.g. the judge says go to drug treatment or go to jail). Removing that fear can lead to more people not getting into trea…
"We might have to operate in a cruel and unusual fashion, otherwise, some users might not actually be afraid enough of violence from the state to get help." This is an unfortunate binary we've backed ourselves into. I can imagine tons of other methods the state could use to drive compliance other than outright incarceration and the threat of entirely destroying your life.
> the threat of entirely destroying your life.
What do you mean? Since this is fentanyl, they are already destroying their lives, they will be lucky to still be alive a couple of years if something drastic isn't done.
Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging
#60I maintain now (as I did when Measure 110 passed in Oregon, and in the discussions here in HN) that decriminalizing drugs would lead the state, and especially Portland of course, to a terrible and predictable outcome. Many supporters of the measure believed that it was the objectively right choice. Decriminalize, and get people to treatment instead of locking them up. The sad thing is that you can make all the piecew…
> your city is unlivable and your block is terrorized by drug addicts
This is hyperbole, I live in one of the rougher neighborhoods. The city gov especially the mayor and his cronies have done nothing to actually fix problems, they just do expensive sweeps and cleanup without addressing root causes.