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Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

arxiv.org

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Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#51

Post by peyton »

simplicio wrote: post #33
Azrael3000 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently a new paper is supposed to come out from the original authors about the production method [0]. So it really is unclear whether everybody generates the same material. It's a shame that these papers were published before they were polished by the authors. [0] https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/claims-of-room-tempe...

Seems the fastest way to clear this up would just be for the original team to send a sample to some other scientists for testing. That would solve any issues regarding other teams reproducing the material incorrectly, and at a first pass, what everyone cares about is whether its a superconductor at room temp, not how to make it.

> Once the findings are published in a peer-reviewed journal, which Kim says is in the works, he will support anyone who wants to create and test LK-99 for themselves. [1]

Sounds like that’s the plan once they’ve secured the Nature paper.

[1]: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2384782-room-temperatur...

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#52

Post by bibabaloo »

canjobear wrote: post #46
TillE wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They mention the possibility of a mistake when measuring resistivity, which has already been discussed. But yeah, the partial levitation is not a mistake. Their abstract suggests LK-99 is a "highly insulating diamagnet", but they are not even able to "detect any reliable diamagnetic signal" with their instruments. I'd rank the possibilities as: fraud, a different material, or some comical series of bizarre mistakes a…

If it’s fraud, what’s the end game?

There's betting markets on this, aren't there? The super cynical take is that the original scientists know that it's a fraud but in the lead up to it being proven as fraud can make a lot of money before coming out and saying "sorry, we messed up, experimental errors etc etc"

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#53

Post by ajkjk »

carabiner wrote: post #32

Research out of Berkeley, 1 Aug 2023: theoretical analysis suggests high-Tc superconductors from apatite possible, points to synthesis challenges. > Finally, the calculations presented here suggest that Cu substitution on the appropriate (Pb(1)) site displays many key characteristics for high-TC superconductivity, namely a particularly flat isolated d-manifold, and the potential presence of fluctuating magnetism, cha…

Wow, August 1 2023 hasn't even come yet. Superconductivity is amazing.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#54

Post by p-e-w »

peyton wrote: post #51
simplicio wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems the fastest way to clear this up would just be for the original team to send a sample to some other scientists for testing. That would solve any issues regarding other teams reproducing the material incorrectly, and at a first pass, what everyone cares about is whether its a superconductor at room temp, not how to make it.

> Once the findings are published in a peer-reviewed journal, which Kim says is in the works, he will support anyone who wants to create and test LK-99 for themselves. [1] Sounds like that’s the plan once they’ve secured the Nature paper. [1]: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2384782-room-temperatur...

Sounds like they have it the wrong way round. Considering the uncertainty surrounding all of this, and the initial problems with replication, why would Nature publish this before it has been independently replicated?

Not sure what they're worried about here. They already have priority, and if this replicates, every journal on Earth will be fighting over the privilege to publish it.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#55

Post by j16sdiz »

p-e-w wrote: post #38
j16sdiz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because they just got a few mm^3, not done experimenting with it, and was not ready to publish?

> because they just got a few mm^3 But why? The base materials are cheap and easily available, and the synthesis process seems rather straightforward. Why don't they have kilograms of this stuff by now?

These are crystals. Getting large (millimeters scale), pure crystal of the required structure is not easy.

You can't do superconducting experiments on powder.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#56

Post by p-e-w »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #49
p-e-w wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they just got a few mm^3 But why? The base materials are cheap and easily available, and the synthesis process seems rather straightforward. Why don't they have kilograms of this stuff by now?

> synthesis process seems rather straightforward They’ve been working on this for years . To me it looks like whatever their process is, they don’t have something that’s repeatable. So maybe a couple of small samples are all there are after 1000s of attempts doing more or less the same thing .

So the groups trying to replicate right now are basically wasting their time?

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#57

Post by OJFord »

p-e-w wrote: post #26
Azrael3000 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently a new paper is supposed to come out from the original authors about the production method [0]. So it really is unclear whether everybody generates the same material. It's a shame that these papers were published before they were polished by the authors. [0] https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/claims-of-room-tempe...

> It's a shame that these papers were published before they were polished by the authors. Indeed. It's also a shame that they chose to use language like: "We believe that our new development will be a brand-new historical event that opens a new era for humankind." When you make grandiose boasts like these, you better be fucking certain you are correct.

I think a huge part of that is translation: imagine what you might sound like if you wrote a press release for or tried to explain to a layman some project you're involved in, and then had it translated to Korean.

Some benign description of why room temp atmospheric pressure superconductors are interesting becomes 'a brand-new historical event that opens a new era for humankind'.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#58

Post by scarmig »

canjobear wrote: post #46
TillE wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They mention the possibility of a mistake when measuring resistivity, which has already been discussed. But yeah, the partial levitation is not a mistake. Their abstract suggests LK-99 is a "highly insulating diamagnet", but they are not even able to "detect any reliable diamagnetic signal" with their instruments. I'd rank the possibilities as: fraud, a different material, or some comical series of bizarre mistakes a…

If it’s fraud, what’s the end game?

There's also the possibility that the original team is deceiving themselves. By all appearances, they're deeply committed to this result (that could be an act, but that's not the sense I'm getting). But those biases could creep into the analysis of the material: in this particular field, a lot of things are witchcraft (witchcraft that occasionally works). So take a novel material with some interesting properties and human interpretative fallibility, and you get the paper. Which would still mean a powerful diamagnetic material, but that's... well, not something we'd have kilothreads on HN about.

My stance (did research in high-Tc superconductors in undergrad ages ago, but doing banal software dev nowadays): who knows. The "easy replication" idea has faded away, which isn't promising, but maybe? It's fun to put my faith in Twitter anime catgirl avatars, though, so I'm still rooting for it.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#59

Post by Chilko »

ajkjk wrote: post #53
carabiner wrote: post #32

Research out of Berkeley, 1 Aug 2023: theoretical analysis suggests high-Tc superconductors from apatite possible, points to synthesis challenges. > Finally, the calculations presented here suggest that Cu substitution on the appropriate (Pb(1)) site displays many key characteristics for high-TC superconductivity, namely a particularly flat isolated d-manifold, and the potential presence of fluctuating magnetism, cha…

Wow, August 1 2023 hasn't even come yet. Superconductivity is amazing.

Speak for yourself, I've been living in the future for 15h and 27 minutes already.
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