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Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

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Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#51

Post by evandale »

baz00 wrote: post #44
evandale wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I need the distraction and want to try out the shiny things. I really should find a new job because my manager has your attitude and it drives me crazy. I'm at a big corp and I can't stand the "just deal with it, there's processes and they suck but it's for the best" attitude that everyone has. I keep having the delusion that this year will be different because there has been small improvements.. but ffs. W…

I think you misjudge the situation. And I'm not that manager. If there's an enabler I'll help you get it out and keep the politics away from you. That's my job. But most stuff out there isn't moonshot project work. It's boring ass maintenance and minor function changes. What I don't want is when someone is asked to change a web form to find a whole fucking ReactJS stack pulled in because someone is bored or it looks…

Thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I have no interest turning a Java GUI that's been working for 20 years into a React app.

I probably have to admit I have a manager who doesn't really align with my needs. He's great at the business side but terrible at the technology side. That's why I'm still around, because he does back me up, but he won't get into battles about downloading VisualVM. We have jdk8 installed and it's in there, just use that! Why do you need the latest version? It's frustrating, but I do like my manager and my team, they just have the ability to roll over and follow the damn rules sooner than I prefer.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#52

Post by gundmc »

danielovichdk wrote: post #25

When adults can't be responsible for themselves they need to be managed. When adults can be responsible they need more than one other adult to address issues and challenges with. To learn from and to teach to. Management is a industrial and corporate construct. Its put in place to force labour intense industries to tell others what they need to do. Tell is often a monologue. There is indeed need for adults to be arou…

This comment reads like something #6 from the OP would say.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#53

Post by [deleted] »

matrix_overload wrote: post #40
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #31

I am sick and tired of pressure to get into management once you get older and lack of other opportunities to be rewarded. If I can do job of 5 other people, I can be compensated like two others and the company is still ahead. Or if that's just my arrogance talking, there can be an objective system to measure work accomplished and set rewards accordingly. Instead all of my questions about advancement are met with dema…

Business likes predictability. The chance of 5 people deciding to leave all at once is exponentially lower than a chance of 1 person. Hence, unless you are the owner/founder, your replaceability will be valued more than your performance.

[deleted]

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#55

Post by [deleted] »

baz00 wrote: post #29

A finding I had when I took a management role was that it's really hard actually getting anyone to do a good job of something. This is utterly frustrating. So many people actually don't give a fuck if what they do works or is of merchantable quality as long as it's perceived they are working for the hours required. I've found that the teams usually divide into functional elites that do the work unattended and I'm dea…

[deleted]

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#56

Post by rndmwlk »

baz00 wrote: post #29

A finding I had when I took a management role was that it's really hard actually getting anyone to do a good job of something. This is utterly frustrating. So many people actually don't give a fuck if what they do works or is of merchantable quality as long as it's perceived they are working for the hours required. I've found that the teams usually divide into functional elites that do the work unattended and I'm dea…

>So many people actually don't give a fuck if what they do works or is of merchantable quality as long as it's perceived they are working for the hours required.

I've found that's due to completely backwards incentives. Most people don't give a fuck because they aren't rewarded properly. If I do an excellent job and complete whatever task I'm given well ahead of schedule the only reward I get is more work. Even if I sandbag a bit and do an excellent job and complete on time, often the reward for being "better" is more responsibility or more difficult tasks (without compensation). Some folks want that, many do not. Dollars to doughnuts if your team members know that quality work on schedule will be actually rewarded then you'll find more of those members capable of producing that quality of work.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#57

Post by perrygeo »

baz00 wrote: post #34
politelemon wrote: post #33

What can I as a little shits engineer, do to encourage and motivate managers?

As a manager we like people who actually build a house out of something other than shit and straw as we have to present that to people who don't like us and we just want a peaceful life too. So keep it simple, quality and don't get distracted by shiny things.

Wow, my experience could not be any different. In my experience, the business side of the house is the primary driver of adopting "shiny things", by a long shot. Engineers plead for empirically-supported, simple, robust, high-quality implementations. But they're overridden by the impulse to add complex whiz-bang buzzwords. It makes a great pitch - long term viability be damned.

I'm not blaming "managers" here. This applies to anyone who sticks their nose into an engineering process without the merit or to do so.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#58

Post by brmgb »

zgluck wrote: post #35
baz00 wrote: post #29

A finding I had when I took a management role was that it's really hard actually getting anyone to do a good job of something. This is utterly frustrating. So many people actually don't give a fuck if what they do works or is of merchantable quality as long as it's perceived they are working for the hours required. I've found that the teams usually divide into functional elites that do the work unattended and I'm dea…

Making software is a bit special in that you can't really make use of people like that. In e.g. a supermarket you can.

Of course you can. Managing people mean having to deal with people of various skill levels and with different things motivating them. You have to find way to make it work and that means finding way to get something out of people who are not intrinsically motivated. No one said it was easy.

Re: Reasons Not to Be a Manager (2019)

#59

Post by xracy »

baz00 wrote: post #29

A finding I had when I took a management role was that it's really hard actually getting anyone to do a good job of something. This is utterly frustrating. So many people actually don't give a fuck if what they do works or is of merchantable quality as long as it's perceived they are working for the hours required. I've found that the teams usually divide into functional elites that do the work unattended and I'm dea…

Honestly, this sounds to me a bit like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you want people to care about things, you have to listen to what they care about... I can influence some of what people care about as a manager, but it's long-term steering a spaceship a few degrees at a time.

I think too many people see managing a team as "managing the people to do good work." When, in fact, managing is much more about managing the right projects/opportunities into your team's scope. I very rarely tell people what to do, because ultimately, I don't have any power to change what they do. And they'll respect me, and the project, more if they think they're making the decision instead of me.

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