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Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

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Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#51

Post by mutatio »

purple_elephant wrote: post #42

There are many uninformed comments in this thread saying that the UK would have to join the Eurozone if it returned to the EU. No. You only have to adopt the euro if you meet the convergence criteria. One of the criteria is joining ERM II. There's no mechanism that can force a country to join ERM II. This is why Sweden, although theoretically obliged to join the eurozone, still has its own currency.

I think the problem with this is that it's a technicality; the optics of selling it like that wouldn't wash - I suspect the UK would need specific reassurance for the "Euro" topic.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#52

Post by mc_woods »

messe wrote: post #20
mschuster91 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Euro and the ECB haven't even been a success for the EU as-is, a single fiscal policy cannot reconcile the economies of Germany and Greece. Of course it has been a success. I (half-German, half-Croatian) grew up in times where each of the borders from Germany to Croatia had anything from 1-4 hours of waiting time, you'd need to exchange currency at each border (at outrageous rates) as well simply to be able to…

To play devil’s advocate, a lot of that is now ameliorated by the decline of cash and the rise of certain neobanks. I’m in Denmark at the moment, and thanks to my banks (N26, Revolut), I can cheaply convert my savings (EUR) and spend in the local currency (DKK); either at transaction time (N26 and Revolut), or ahead of time (Revolut) all with minimal fees.

Yes and the Neobanks, both N26 and Revolute rely on fact that financial regulators across the block recognise each other, so N26 regulated in Germany can operate in Ireland. Etc.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#53

Post by messe »

mc_woods wrote: post #52
messe wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil’s advocate, a lot of that is now ameliorated by the decline of cash and the rise of certain neobanks. I’m in Denmark at the moment, and thanks to my banks (N26, Revolut), I can cheaply convert my savings (EUR) and spend in the local currency (DKK); either at transaction time (N26 and Revolut), or ahead of time (Revolut) all with minimal fees.

Yes and the Neobanks, both N26 and Revolute rely on fact that financial regulators across the block recognise each other, so N26 regulated in Germany can operate in Ireland. Etc.

Sure, but that doesn’t necessarily require a single currency.

For what it’s worth, I’m in favour of the euro (and further EU integration).

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#54

Post by c7DJTLrn »

rst wrote: post #38
c7DJTLrn wrote: post #11

There's no way it will happen, the damage has been done and besides, the politicians don't want it. The referendum should've been nullified when the scale of political interference via social media in 2016 came to light. Also, 52% to 48% is not a resounding "yes" and should not have been considered as one.

Or a second referendum held once the terms of the actual withdrawal deal were known, and fell far short of the Leave campaign's promises of, in effect, retaining all the benefits of membership. The EU was still declaring at that point that were the UK Parliament to vote to end the Article 50 process and retain membership, they'd be willing to forget the whole thing.

>Or a second referendum held once the terms of the actual withdrawal deal were known

Exactly, nobody voting for Brexit even knew what they were voting for! Many just had some nebulous, fantastical idea of independence from some "evil" organisation in Brussels.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#55

Post by mutatio »

kramerger wrote: post #9

Please don't. Things have been so much smoother in the EU since UK left. Their politicians had this idea that Europe was out to screw them in every deal and that made it a very annoying 30 years of "collaboration".

I'm a remainer, how do you think your portrayal comes across? Even the mere financial contributions alone (net contributor) should be acknowledged and recognized as a force for good for the project during our tenure. Some countries also appreciated our counterweight to the French/German hegemony.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#56

Post by mutatio »

kramerger wrote: post #13
mutatio wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well only even the most pious remainers would accept the Euro as a currency and removing fiscal sovereignty, so it's a total non-starter. The special treatment for the old guard (German automotive, French farming industries) also needs to be expunged.

I don't think Germany and France are getting any special treatment. There might be something for the agriculture or automotive sectors, but it will apply to all countries.

That's precisely why the UK got a rebate, because the subsidies were not applicable to the UK economy, which had a disproportionately low input from farming, thus for our financial input we weren't fairly rewarded.

The UK has had a declining car manufacturing industry also, so the same applies to German industry.

The redistribution of contributions may very well appear fair on paper, but countries cannot simply magic up a pivot to farming and automotive industries as a way to receive funds...

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#57

Post by bbg2401 »

x86x87 wrote: post #25

Coulda woulda shoulda They fucked around and now they are in the finding out phase. There is no way the EU will allow them to continue with their jackasseries. If you want back in apply like a new state and accept the shit conditions new members have to accept. You're not special. You're a shadow of a former great empire and your economy is collapsing. Immigrants? Those fools are actually keeping you afloat while you…

[flagged]

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#58

Post by blibble »

hcayless wrote: post #35
c7DJTLrn wrote: post #11

There's no way it will happen, the damage has been done and besides, the politicians don't want it. The referendum should've been nullified when the scale of political interference via social media in 2016 came to light. Also, 52% to 48% is not a resounding "yes" and should not have been considered as one.

More to the point 2/4 countries in the UK voted remain and got dragged out of the EU anyway.

the UK is unitary state, not a federation or confederation

the previous sovereign states that were dissolved to form it are called "countries" for historical reasons

the referendum was 1 person 1 vote

populations:

  - Scotland and NI (voted Remain): 7.5 million
  - England and Wales (vote Leave): 60 million
allowing 7.5 million to override 60 million, simply because they physically live in an area that was formerly a different state several hundred years ago would be disenfranchisement on a vast scale

not to mention completely undemocratic

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#59

Post by [deleted] »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #43

I was a remainer (ie anti-Brexit). This article shows what seems to be becoming a general growing consensus that "some people (prominent campaigners and politicians) lied to us for their own benefit" - and there is a more subtle second consensus of "and then forced a hard brexit for their own career gains". This is a nice consensus because it has evil people to blame, and removes the blame from 50% of the voting publ…

[deleted]

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#60

Post by scott_w »

ProxCoques wrote: post #32
scott_w wrote: post #21

I’ve only read half the article and stopped because it seems the author is hopelessly ignorant about some basic facts: - The EU won’t start the process to admit the UK until joining is politically settled - Until the Tory party is also onboard with rejoining, it can’t be politically settled - The Tory party will only get onboard when it’s no longer possible to win power without wanting to rejoin - Despite there being…

"ALL polls showing a majority rejoin exclude “Don’t knows” That'll be like the referendum then.

Except in the referendum, many of those “Don’t knows” turned into “Leave.”

My point is that you can’t just read a poll and confidently declare there’s popular support for rejoining the EU.

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