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Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

theintercept.com

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Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

#51

Post by jstarfish »

Hizonner wrote: post #45
Natsu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone going after people keeping child sex slaves doesn't really seem to be stretching the definition of human trafficking.

If you read the article, you'll see some TALK about child sex slaves. The only evidence you'll see of any ACTION is doxxing self-employed adult prostitutes. That's probably because actual child sex slavery is relatively hard to find.

Call it logical fallacy, but just because it's hard [for you] to find doesn't mean it's not going on.

I used to work with multiple ex-vice detectives. They had some seriously harrowing stories about the shit they routinely found on motel raids.

If you think actual child sex slavery is "relatively hard to find," come visit Georgia. It's only been made hard to find because of FOSTA-SESTA; such services used to be advertised in plain English on Backpage.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/atlanta/news/pr...

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/31-arrested-in-georgia-as-p...

Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

#52

Post by fakedang »

Hizonner wrote: post #45
Natsu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone going after people keeping child sex slaves doesn't really seem to be stretching the definition of human trafficking.

If you read the article, you'll see some TALK about child sex slaves. The only evidence you'll see of any ACTION is doxxing self-employed adult prostitutes. That's probably because actual child sex slavery is relatively hard to find.

Not to mention, the ones doxxing prostitutes also have a good reason to do so - perhaps creating a smokescreen around their own pedophilic closet. We already saw this in various ways, including the campaigns against gays and drug users.

Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

#53

Post by beebmam »

jstarfish wrote: post #51
Hizonner wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article, you'll see some TALK about child sex slaves. The only evidence you'll see of any ACTION is doxxing self-employed adult prostitutes. That's probably because actual child sex slavery is relatively hard to find.

Call it logical fallacy, but just because it's hard [for you] to find doesn't mean it's not going on. I used to work with multiple ex-vice detectives. They had some seriously harrowing stories about the shit they routinely found on motel raids. If you think actual child sex slavery is "relatively hard to find," come visit Georgia. It's only been made hard to find because of FOSTA-SESTA; such services used to be adver…

I agree with you. But what do you think about organizations that use a facade of taking down child sex traffickers to cover up the fact that they use virtually all their resources to doxx self-employed adult sex workers?

Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

#54

Post by Hizonner »

jstarfish wrote: post #51
Hizonner wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article, you'll see some TALK about child sex slaves. The only evidence you'll see of any ACTION is doxxing self-employed adult prostitutes. That's probably because actual child sex slavery is relatively hard to find.

Call it logical fallacy, but just because it's hard [for you] to find doesn't mean it's not going on. I used to work with multiple ex-vice detectives. They had some seriously harrowing stories about the shit they routinely found on motel raids. If you think actual child sex slavery is "relatively hard to find," come visit Georgia. It's only been made hard to find because of FOSTA-SESTA; such services used to be adver…

That's totally irrelevant. I didn't say that it didn't exist.

Even if it WERE being advertised openly, there'd still be less of it around than plain old adult prostitution. And as you point out it's NOT being advertised openly. So it is in fact relatively hard to find.

Therefore these guys go for the low-hanging fruit, because as far as they're concerned all prostitution is human trafficking (one of them says exactly that in the article). In their propaganda, it's in their interest to talk as if they were going after children in bondage... except, of course, when they give a count of their cases. That number is going to include everybody.

Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

#55

Post by Retric »

willcipriano wrote: post #40
Retric wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what do you think they’d do for one of their own? Hang them out to dry, as should be evident by your failure to find examples. Teachers failing to report student on student violence isn’t actively protecting perpetrators the way the church was reported as doing. Church administrators would move pedophiles to new communities multiple times after accusations showed up. It’s a very different situation.

> Church administrators would move pedophiles to new communities multiple times after accusations showed up. From a few months ago: Oversight failures allow sexually abusive teachers to quietly move from school to school "It's called passing the trash," said Morgan Stewart, an attorney representing students who have accused teachers of sexual abuse at Redlands Unified District schools. "They'd give them recommendatio…

That GAO report shows some serious lapses at private and public schools, such as using the wrong name for a criminal background investigation. It highlighted a few cases of people being given a positive recommendation after being fired for such things as watching porn on school computers.

Nationwide fingerprint checks really should be mandatory here.

Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

#56

Post by Tostino »

Terr_ wrote: post #31
Hizonner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Human traffickers are some of the worst criminals on earth ... which is why it's so valuable to some people to expand the definition of "human trafficking" beyond ACTUAL human trafficking. Right at the moment, if you hear the phrase "human trafficking" in some random place, especially used by somebody who's asking for money, power, or support of whatever kind, there seems to be about a 95 percent chance it's being…

Kind of like how the slander of "groomers" is being hurled at any gender/sexual-orientation the speaker finds distasteful. In many ways it's a repeat with different packaging of the "all homosexuals are pedophiles" from a generation or two ago, sometimes from the same people and interest-groups.

There are people in this thread bringing up that bullshit. I really dislike a lot of the recent discourse on HN.

Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

#57

Post by esyir »

morkalork wrote: post #49
rayiner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents care about the probability of their kid being victimized. They don’t care whether 1 priest abuses 10 kids in a congregation of 300 or 10 teachers abuse 10 kids in a school of 300. The relevant metric is number complaints normalized by the relevant potential victim population. There’s more complaints in one year against schools than in 50 years against the Catholic Church. Yes, that’s partly because way more p…

Okay, so say you have a kid and you're putting them into bible study and you have a choice between two sessions, one with 20 kids and an instructor that has a 5% chance of being abusive, and another with 10 kids and an instructor with 9.5% chance of being abusive. You would suggest the latter is better because the odds are better for your kid? The expectation is higher in the first case, but then chances that it's yo…

At the end of the day, it boils down to this.

Do you rather have your kid to have big N% chance of being abused, or small n%. At a micro level, you might get more control, but at the macro level, the results in aggregate are what matter.

Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

#58

Post by Natsu »

Hizonner wrote: post #45
Natsu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone going after people keeping child sex slaves doesn't really seem to be stretching the definition of human trafficking.

If you read the article, you'll see some TALK about child sex slaves. The only evidence you'll see of any ACTION is doxxing self-employed adult prostitutes. That's probably because actual child sex slavery is relatively hard to find.

> The only evidence you'll see of any ACTION is doxxing self-employed adult prostitutes.

Can you quote that part of the article? They make reference to looking for kids and browsing escort listings, but they're obviously looking for people on the younger side and even the article contains this bit:

> When asked about Skull Games’s position on arresting victims, Tiegs emphasized that “arresting is different from prosecuting” and argued, “Sometimes they do need to make the arrest, because of the health and welfare of that person. She needs to get clean, maybe she’s high. … Very rarely, in my opinion, is it right to charge and prosecute a girl.”

I don't see the word 'adult' at all in the article unless my ctrl+F isn't working, so I'm not sure where you get the idea that their "ACTION" is doxxing adults.

Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

#59

Post by splendor_spoon »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #27
rayiner wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any evidence for your implication that sexual abuse is more common in religious organizations than secular organizations that deal with children? There’s about 15,000 sexual abuse complaints every year in schools: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/sexual-violence-rep... . Every year CPS agencies receive 4.4 million referrals for child mistreatment, about 10% of which relate to sexual abuse: https://www.childwe…

[flagged]

I don’t believe the sexes of the offender or victim matter much when it is between an adult and a child. Always wrong and that should not be sidelined or downplayed.

Re: Counterterrorism internet surveillance is being retargeted at sex workers

#60

Post by livueta »

Natsu wrote: post #29
Hizonner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Human traffickers are some of the worst criminals on earth ... which is why it's so valuable to some people to expand the definition of "human trafficking" beyond ACTUAL human trafficking. Right at the moment, if you hear the phrase "human trafficking" in some random place, especially used by somebody who's asking for money, power, or support of whatever kind, there seems to be about a 95 percent chance it's being…

Someone going after people keeping child sex slaves doesn't really seem to be stretching the definition of human trafficking.

What?

> Tiegs argued that “100 percent” of sex work is human trafficking

He's completely upfront about conflating all sex work with human trafficking. I genuinely don't understand how you could read this and not get that the point of the "trafficking" rhetoric is shifting the definition to encompass what's not generally considered human trafficking.

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