Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#51

Post by hiAndrewQuinn » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:26 PM UTC

deanmoriarty wrote: post #22

Wow, this is so sad. I grew up in Europe in the 90s with parents who pretty much let me do whatever I wanted as long as I was a well-behaved child/teenager and getting reasonable school grades. At 6 years old I was literally biking by the river or wandering in the woods with my friends after school for hours on end. Every day was an exciting adventure without any adult supervision, just random groups of 2-10 kids who…

You're going to have to be somewhat careful or forward thinking to keep those same benefits for your kids going forward, I'm afraid. I made the opposite move and I see kids playing outside far more often here in Finland than I ever did in the States, and I grew up in a quite cozy little suburb.

In my darker moments I fear this may be one of those things where the tradeoffs between a high performance society and a take-it-easy culture just can't be squared. But then I remember that it's more likely downstream of other, more transient issues in American culture - the ever present fear of getting cancelled, the heavily bike-hostile ecosystem, etc. It's worth fighting to get back.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#52

Post by pj_mukh » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:27 PM UTC

caesil wrote: post #18

I wonder if this doesn't have a lot to do with cars. In surrendering utterly to the preeminence of streets, we have essentially taken our open, free world and overlain it with an immense grid of electric fences -- thick lines all over the map that, if children wander across them, might easily lead to their deaths. So "hold hands everywhere" and "don't let your children run free outside" become the norms. The only saf…

Absolutely, and America has double problem where denser neighborhoods are seen as unsafe due to crime. And less dense neighborhoods means kids can’t go anywhere without having an adult drive them.

So kids are stuck at home, miles from a playmate.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#53

Post by dgb23 » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:27 PM UTC

ccleve wrote: post #19

atonse wrote: post #2

We have really made it a point to have our kid play freely as much as possible and minimize scheduled activities (piano lessons etc.) the problem is that most of his friends are in a million classes so even if he’s free, they often aren’t. That’s been the big challenge. So then there are these magical days where they all don’t have any activities and those invariably happen to be the days ALL kids look forward to. Cu…

I came here to post exactly this. It is appalling that we live in a neighborhood where everyone can walk, there are plenty of kids that my son knows within a mile, he's 14 and more than old enough to be out on his own, but every one of his friends is in a math class, or French school, or out of town on vacation, constantly. He goes to the park and there is no one there. So he stays home and watches anime. The only wa…

Boredom can be a great breeding ground for creativity.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#54

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #45

alexpetralia wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(deleted - posted under the wrong comment)

Agreed. Also in NYC and while I do trust my kid with road safety I’ve witnessed so many drivers blowing through a red light, speeding, parking in the middle of a crosswalk and pulling all kinds of dangerous manoeuvers that the streets don’t actually feel particularly safe. There’s just zero enforcement out there.

[deleted]

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#55

Post by myth_drannon » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:29 PM UTC

ccleve wrote: post #19

atonse wrote: post #2

We have really made it a point to have our kid play freely as much as possible and minimize scheduled activities (piano lessons etc.) the problem is that most of his friends are in a million classes so even if he’s free, they often aren’t. That’s been the big challenge. So then there are these magical days where they all don’t have any activities and those invariably happen to be the days ALL kids look forward to. Cu…

I came here to post exactly this. It is appalling that we live in a neighborhood where everyone can walk, there are plenty of kids that my son knows within a mile, he's 14 and more than old enough to be out on his own, but every one of his friends is in a math class, or French school, or out of town on vacation, constantly. He goes to the park and there is no one there. So he stays home and watches anime. The only wa…

Yes, this culture of parents scheduling play dates drives me insane. And even if you try to schedule, everyone is so busy. Kids have karate and 30 minutes later baseball and that's after school. It so much different from our childhood and we struggle to integrate into it.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#56

Post by NegativeLatency » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:29 PM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #31

caesil wrote: post #18

I wonder if this doesn't have a lot to do with cars. In surrendering utterly to the preeminence of streets, we have essentially taken our open, free world and overlain it with an immense grid of electric fences -- thick lines all over the map that, if children wander across them, might easily lead to their deaths. So "hold hands everywhere" and "don't let your children run free outside" become the norms. The only saf…

No. It's paranoia. Cars have been around for a long time.

Cars as we know and use them have only been around for 100 years, which is very little time compared to say the evolution of the human brain.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#57

Post by alexpetralia » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:29 PM UTC

caesil wrote: post #18

I wonder if this doesn't have a lot to do with cars. In surrendering utterly to the preeminence of streets, we have essentially taken our open, free world and overlain it with an immense grid of electric fences -- thick lines all over the map that, if children wander across them, might easily lead to their deaths. So "hold hands everywhere" and "don't let your children run free outside" become the norms. The only saf…

Routinely in New York City at least, you can kill someone using a motor vehicle almost with complete impunity.

The driver who led to Sammy's Law (which still hasn't passed) only received a 180 day license suspension a year and a half after the accident, even though he sped past a stopped vehicle on the righthand side (the vehicle had stopped for the child). Death by car is often considered acceptable.

There is really no disincentive to dangerous driving, to say nothing of the preeminence of driving more generally.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#58

Post by vorpalhex » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:30 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

"Play is the work of the child" - Dr Maria Montessori

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#59

Post by bryanlarsen » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:30 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #44

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

I wholeheartedly agree based on my own kids, but want to add a caution lest someone misunderstand: this testing, learning, and growing is of a kind that can only be done without adult supervision. It's not something that you can give them with a private lesson. It's not something that can be taught in a classroom. It's not something that can happen at all without adults letting the kids figure it out on their own by…

> I don't want a child learning what heat is by falling onto a wood-burning stove!

Famously, the Dusun in Borneo teach their children to respect knives by allowing them to play with them (and cut themselves) as toddlers.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#60

Post by wing-_-nuts » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:31 PM UTC

j-bos wrote: post #12

mseepgood wrote: post #5

Playing video games does not count as play, I assume?

Games alone or online feel very different from games played together in the same room. Even if they're the game.

Man do I ever lament the decline of 'couch co-op' games. Even to this day it's so nice to be able to go over to a friends house, crack open a beer and play together.