Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress • Hacker News Board

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#51

Post by Knee_Pain » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 9:55 AM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #44

Knee_Pain wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain the contradiction of terms, otherwise this reply is worthlessly vague

A smartphone is a device designed to distract us and hold our attention. Even with a well-behaved app on it, it's still designed and configured to constantly beep and whistle and send notifications, and fly into our hand and compel us to doomscroll something unimportant. It's fairly impossible to reconfigure a consumer device so that it doesn't do this. Someone who is practicing contemplation should not be held priso…

I just put my silenced smartphone on the table and after 15 minutes it sounds a pleasant bell to remind me meditation time is over. Sometimes I want to do guided practice so I listen to the instructions of the meditation guide.

So, where is the problem here? Maybe you are arguing an uninformed strawman.

I could argue the same thing about going to a place of worship. You are surrounded by people (the thing that biologically distracts us the most since we crave social interactions) that make sounds or move about, plus sometimes there is a master guiding people in their practice.

Isn't that the textbook definition of distracting? Why can you magically ignore a whole drove of people around you but somehow a silenced smartphone is just too much to handle? Double standard much.

> instead reach an inner presence of God, and His stillness encompassing all that we experience during that sacred time

>pagan object

this is just baseless cultist talk

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#52

Post by NoZebra120vClip » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 9:55 AM UTC

illwrks wrote: post #15

It depends on the nature of the stress. If you're over worked you don't have time for mindfulness apps.

If you're so overworked that you don't think you have time for ten minutes of meditation every day, then your time management is poor and needs a re-evaluation of priorities.

Do you say the same thing about the gym, or sleep time? Are you too busy to rest in bed for 7-8 hours a night?

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#53

Post by unmole » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 9:57 AM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #44

Knee_Pain wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain the contradiction of terms, otherwise this reply is worthlessly vague

A smartphone is a device designed to distract us and hold our attention. Even with a well-behaved app on it, it's still designed and configured to constantly beep and whistle and send notifications, and fly into our hand and compel us to doomscroll something unimportant. It's fairly impossible to reconfigure a consumer device so that it doesn't do this. Someone who is practicing contemplation should not be held priso…

> A smartphone is a device designed to distract us and hold our attention.

No it isn't.

> to distract us and hold our attention. Even with a well-behaved app on it, it's still designed and configured to constantly beep and whistle and send notifications, and fly into our hand and compel us to doomscroll something unimportant.

That doesn't match my experience in over the decade of using smartphones.

> Someone who is practicing contemplation should not be held prisoner by a robot voice or a glowing screen

A smartphone is a tool.

> but instead reach an inner presence of God, and His stillness encompassing all that we experience during that sacred time.

Buddhism is non-theistic. There is no God.

> But to purposely tether yourself to a created, pagan object is to invite failure from the outset.

Is this meant as satire? I mean, pagan? Really?

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#54

Post by Knee_Pain » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 10:00 AM UTC

0xEF wrote: post #49

Knee_Pain wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Life is not an internet argument. except when you tell someone they should try mindfulness and they look at you as if it was voodoo crap

I mean, it's not your responsibility to change anyone's mind. If you want to put info out there, back it up, etc, there's a good way to do that without going on the attack. I say to each their own, so long as "their own" does not harm others. If Buddhism works for someone, cool. If going to a psychologist works, also cool. When it comes to mental health, I think we can all agree that a one-size-fits-all solution does…

I simply said that breathing exercises have objective benefits which cannot be handwaved away. This whole spiel about argumentation was made up by a biased interpretation

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#55

Post by NoZebra120vClip » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 10:00 AM UTC

Knee_Pain wrote: post #51

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A smartphone is a device designed to distract us and hold our attention. Even with a well-behaved app on it, it's still designed and configured to constantly beep and whistle and send notifications, and fly into our hand and compel us to doomscroll something unimportant. It's fairly impossible to reconfigure a consumer device so that it doesn't do this. Someone who is practicing contemplation should not be held priso…

I just put my silenced smartphone on the table and after 15 minutes it sounds a pleasant bell to remind me meditation time is over. Sometimes I want to do guided practice so I listen to the instructions of the meditation guide. So, where is the problem here? Maybe you are arguing an uninformed strawman. I could argue the same thing about going to a place of worship. You are surrounded by people (the thing that biolog…

> You are surrounded by people

The idea of corporate worship is that the assembly is united in their purpose, there is an order observed, and the people develop discipline from this orderly worship. Also, people are not machines and that's disgusting that you draw this analogy.

People may distract, even in that situation. Many have their minds elsewhere, some don't want to be there, someone may even be actively disruptive. But corporate worship is not usually contemplative meditation.

I have been in worship sessions where silence is strictly enforced, and there is no master guiding an order of prayer. This adoration is always in a group setting. Hey, I've even used my device sometimes to look up Bible verses. It's not sterile.

But if someone is sitting at home, alone, the best practice is to shut out unnecessary distractions to the extent that it is possible. And your phone obeys its corporate master. A mobile device is not under the control of the user holding it.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#56

Post by Kbelicius » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 10:01 AM UTC

toshk wrote: post #22

Knee_Pain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Breathing practices objectively have an effect on our body and nobody can counter this. Buddhist ideology on the other hand is up to debate and everyone is free to try it or believe it. Maybe in your experience meditation is enhanced by believing all that stuff, but that is your prerogative. I can do mindfulness and go to a psychologist instead of doing meditation and going to a temple because maybe that oriental stu…

Walking or exercise also have that effect, similar to mindfulness, if that's your goal. Therapy in itself has limited scientific backing (specific types for specific diagnosis often do). But it feels rational. However the main point is: Buddhism, and all religions, focus on why you do what you do. The Western Way is confusing, partially career & material, bit of humanism, etc. Now that's fine. You can figure it out i…

> The western reason for doing things: focusing on getting external circumstances in order (friends, career, house, family) will cause a huge amount of anxiety.

As somebody who doesn't practice mindfulness but has read a fair bit about it this sounds like a strawman. What I've read is about internal circumstances that have a spill over effect on external. Which doesn't sound much different than the eastern teachings.

> You don't have to believe me and can wait for science to figure this out.

This discussion is happening under a link to a scientific paper ... what are we waiting and what is wrong with this paper that is being discussed?

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#57

Post by astrange » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 10:02 AM UTC

thoui242342343 wrote: post #45

toshk wrote: post #11

Mindfulness took one small technique out of the Buddhist system that feels rational & scientific. It kind of works. But the corpus of Buddhism is what makes it powerful. And this is hard to make palatable for the West. The main goal of buddhism is giving you meaning & joy in life despite of stress or tragedy. Very important aspects of Buddhism that make the whole much more powerful are: - Living & acting out of compa…

It's not just about this. There is a systematic effort to plagiarize from Indian traditions and then claim them to be rediscoveries of the West, inline with historical racist-supremacist constructions. You can see this historically across Mathematics, Astronomy and Medicine in very concrete terms. That they're now doing it with Yoga, Vipassana, Ayurveda etc. is quite disappointing. Andrew Huberman at Stanford has an…

> There is a systematic effort to plagiarize from Indian traditions and then claim them to be rediscoveries of the West

That's just inverting Tibetan Buddhism; if you wanted anyone to believe in something you invented there, you had to claim it was old and from India.

Old and from Tibet was okay sometimes, but only if you claimed your ancestor's spirits dictated it to you or pointed you to the ancient rock it was buried under. (these are called air and earth termas)

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#58

Post by astrange » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 10:07 AM UTC

varispeed wrote: post #19

toshk wrote: post #11

Mindfulness took one small technique out of the Buddhist system that feels rational & scientific. It kind of works. But the corpus of Buddhism is what makes it powerful. And this is hard to make palatable for the West. The main goal of buddhism is giving you meaning & joy in life despite of stress or tragedy. Very important aspects of Buddhism that make the whole much more powerful are: - Living & acting out of compa…

> Living & acting out of compassion (boddhicitta): if your main focus is other not yourself, a huge relief of worries is gone, and meaning arises naturally. Of course here articial part. You'll easily become a victim of people who exploit "caretakers". You'll become an unpaid servant. People need to look after themselves first.

This is overly dualistic. (that's a word Buddhism likes to use to mean "wrong")

Another way to think of it is to consider them and you as a single thing (a mandala) and improve that.

And of course Buddhists are not necessarily going to see being victimized as bad anyway. What's that to a monk?

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#59

Post by Knee_Pain » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 10:08 AM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #55

Knee_Pain wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just put my silenced smartphone on the table and after 15 minutes it sounds a pleasant bell to remind me meditation time is over. Sometimes I want to do guided practice so I listen to the instructions of the meditation guide. So, where is the problem here? Maybe you are arguing an uninformed strawman. I could argue the same thing about going to a place of worship. You are surrounded by people (the thing that biolog…

> You are surrounded by people The idea of corporate worship is that the assembly is united in their purpose, there is an order observed, and the people develop discipline from this orderly worship. Also, people are not machines and that's disgusting that you draw this analogy. People may distract, even in that situation. Many have their minds elsewhere, some don't want to be there, someone may even be actively disru…

My smartphone does exactly what I tell it to do during my meditation time. You keep arguing a strawman using religious language.

Re: Mindfulness-based programs show promise in reducing psychological distress

#60

Post by flangola7 » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 10:08 AM UTC

Knee_Pain wrote: post #17

toshk wrote: post #11

Mindfulness took one small technique out of the Buddhist system that feels rational & scientific. It kind of works. But the corpus of Buddhism is what makes it powerful. And this is hard to make palatable for the West. The main goal of buddhism is giving you meaning & joy in life despite of stress or tragedy. Very important aspects of Buddhism that make the whole much more powerful are: - Living & acting out of compa…

Breathing practices objectively have an effect on our body and nobody can counter this. Buddhist ideology on the other hand is up to debate and everyone is free to try it or believe it. Maybe in your experience meditation is enhanced by believing all that stuff, but that is your prerogative. I can do mindfulness and go to a psychologist instead of doing meditation and going to a temple because maybe that oriental stu…

>that oriental stuff

Really?