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Going Rogue

filfre.net

51–60 of 72 posts

Re: Going Rogue

#51
post #5

That was a nice read! I would have loved to take a brief dip into the less hardcore rogue-lite scene that sprung up, but that might have doubled the length again.

It's a surprisingly late place for this in Filfre's overall story. So much of the early Filfre content was Zork focused, and Zork's Coconut of Quendor is such a direct nod to the Amulet of Yendor, that I would have expected this entry very early on in the Digital Antiquarian. I am interested to see what narrative threads lead him to hold this subject for such a late exposition.

It's the setup for discussing Diablo.

Re: Going Rogue

#52
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked Larn (and Omega). I wasted many hours on Larn. Author didn't go into the fact that some of these games arrived with PCs; AFAIK there was never a Unix version of Larn.

I thought larn was unix-only EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larn_(video_game) (I think I recall playing larn because it was one of the roguelikes available on unix)

Whatever you do, don't visit https://larn.org. You'll never get that time back

Re: Going Rogue

#53
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Nethack offers a turn based top down gameplay simulated with ASCII chars, MUDs are real time or almost real time based with a wall of text and prompt based, like a text adventure.

I don't think anyone plays MUDs with plain telnet. Just use a client with an automapper like tintin++

Or kbtin.

Re: Going Rogue

#54
post #21
post #2

As a rogue addict, nice read. But rogue is a gateway drug to the nethacks :) * ssh nethack@alt.org * ssh nethack@hf * ssh play@server.gnollhack.com * ssh slashem@slashem.me

Newcomers to old-school roguelikes may find Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup more accessible as an entry point to the genre, which can be played in a graphical interface in your web browser via https://crawl.develz.org/play.htm or via classic SSH interface at joshua@crawl.akrasiac.org (password "joshua").

DCSS is more combat oriented, Nethack/Slashem about thinking out of the box and doing crazy stuff to survive in critical places/situations.

Re: Going Rogue

#55
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wrong. It was written for Unix. Well, I guess there's something funny with the license; it's not packaged for Debian, and I can't remember a time when it was.

Larn has a noncommercial license, so it's nonfree by Debian standards.

I think Larn had a free clone called ularn.

Re: Going Rogue

#56
post #29

Great article, but it did give me the "an elephant is like a rope" feeling—it seems like it's one person's idiosyncratic perspective, some of which I agree with and some I disagree with, and there isn't really much justification for changing my mind about the parts where we differ. A couple of specific things that jumped out at me, as someone who lived through this (and got hooked for varying amounts of time on sever…

> The proprietary mindset has infected the "programmers with free time" community ...

I don't know whether there is a difference between today and twenty something years ago. Anyway, as long as one has not enough money to live on passive income, time is money. So one has to somehow monetize on one's one time and skill. This is not poisonous. Earning money is just a matter of life, because one needs money to live from (or someone else has to pay the bills).

I had a quite popular open source project about two decades ago. A lot of people used it (there were more than 300 people on the projects mailing list alone), and many of them also for commercial purposes. There was an option to donate to the project; but when I remember it correctly, I recieved only a single donation in all the years. However, I considered my open source work as a kind of quid pro quo for all the free software I use. But when the project ended, I had no motivation to invest any more time in another open source project, because I considered my "debt" repaid and moved on to other kinds of social engagement.

Re: Going Rogue

#57

I was a save-scummer. I played Nethack locally, and save-scumming was the only way that I could make meaningful progress beyond the noob levels. Yeah, I knew all the spoilers by heart, I knew the secrets, I had access to the rumors and the Wiki, but I had some bad habits that led to YASD every time, such as hoarding everything in inventory, melee attacks when ranged would be better, not making much use of spells or m…

Curses can be addressed by: 1) blessing everything that matters before you start your ascension 2) carrying inventory in an oilskin sack (which will work fine while cursed, and protect items inside it from being cursed) 3) carrying holy water and/or scrolls of remove curse 4) knowing the remove curse spell 5) certain Artifacts and armor will reduce the effect of curses on your inventory 6) carrying a lot of lightweight junk as a curse "buffer" so that curses will have a lower chance of hitting something critical 7) wielding Magicbane, that blocks 95% of curses.

A lot of this is really just, as mentioned, time spent on planning and execution.

Re: Going Rogue

#58
post #29

Great article, but it did give me the "an elephant is like a rope" feeling—it seems like it's one person's idiosyncratic perspective, some of which I agree with and some I disagree with, and there isn't really much justification for changing my mind about the parts where we differ. A couple of specific things that jumped out at me, as someone who lived through this (and got hooked for varying amounts of time on sever…

> The proprietary mindset has infected the "programmers with free time" community ... I don't know whether there is a difference between today and twenty something years ago. Anyway, as long as one has not enough money to live on passive income, time is money. So one has to somehow monetize on one's one time and skill. This is not poisonous. Earning money is just a matter of life, because one needs money to live from…

Having been involved in at least some degree over that period, yes there is a large difference. Not a simple one; there are both good and bad differences. (I would guess that the raw amount of open source code produced today is rather larger, for example.)

> So one has to somehow monetize on one's one time and skill. This is not poisonous.

It is not poisonous in general. I get paid for programming, and don't have a problem with others getting paid for programming. But the "monetize all the things" mindset is indeed poisonous to the original heart of the open source community, where people are motivated by the desire to share and are making decisions that are consciously aligned with growing the strength and health of this open source community.

They can coexist, but there is tension and cannibalization between them[1]. It's more of an ecosystem. Two populations are living side by side with blurred edges between them. Some rate of defections from one to the other. An environment that encourages one and not the other can hugely alter the size and health of one of the populations, and that's what we've seen happen: many aspects of the environment have shifted to encourage the profit-driven crowd, to the point where the share and share alike crowd are looking anemic. It's not about one being good and the other bad, it's more like an invasive species lowering biodiversity and making all of us worse off.

Think of it as value creation vs value capture, if that works better for you. My claim is that the community has swung too far in the value capture direction. Most work these days that looks like the older model is actually being funded by massive value-capturing organizations; they're just capturing the value from somewhere else. I applaud such contributions, but don't pretend that they're passion projects of civic-minded individuals anymore.

I'm not going to look down on someone who works for money. It's not a bad thing to do, and there are good reasons why they might even want to do things differently but cannot. It's just that they're not part of the particular community I care about, and I am interested in the health of that community.

[1] Ok, monetization generally cannibalizes open source and not the other way around.

Re: Going Rogue

#59
post #18

In proud to say that I graduated in CS in the 90s despite countless hours of Nethack. I never ascended though.

And I can say I never got fired playing rogue when I started out programming.

Re: Going Rogue

#60
post #44

[on open source] As for the ideas they introduced into the public discourse: they were real, valid, and in many ways incredibly valuable, but in the end they would be woven into the fabric of existing corporate-software production practices rather than burning down the old ways wholesale. Ouch For rigid ideology seldom makes a good fit with the real world; pragmatically mixed national economies, for example, succeed…

Yeah, I work in an investment bank in Hong Kong, and I agree with both statement: we are more successful than most countries, including China, because as a people we are extremely pragmatic: we have free education to provide banks with an adequate workforce, we have free hospital so that bank employees do not overly concern themselves with the wellbeing of their parents and children, we have freedom of expression because we should not be distracted from the main point, politically: we should only aim at fighting for more capital to come in, not for freedom of speech to reappear. We only break down when a dogmatic partner, be it China or the US, push us around to trend their side, it's very annoying to witness.

I enjoy a lot remixing open source software into our bank's backend. However, nobody ever cared about what I did in the bank to a point I could send it back to an open source community. I think open source cannot solve problems alone, as the article says: it just solves technical problems but never the ones I need to solve for money. Interestingly some of my least productive colleagues, those who never seem to solve any problem, are very very avid open source contributor. It's like they can write an entire unusable framework for calling databases in 6 whole months, but we still have clients who cannot cross a swap in Korea. They don't seem to know what a swap is, why we want to cross them or where Korea is located. Why ?

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