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BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

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51–60 of 139 posts

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#51
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that the amount of assault is relatively unrelated to total ridership? Like the number of criminal assholes in the community is about the same regardless of how many people use mass transit?

The point is that with a constant amount of assaults, and fewer potential victims, you are more likely to be a victim.

Only if you assume random victims of assault. That’s a pretty big assumption

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#52
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DC areas metro is facing a good 3/4 billion$ shortfall too, with federal support ending. We have the added shitshow of being a metro system spanning three different states. No one wants to pay, no one feels responsible; it's a mess.

Lol I see what u did there! Nice try, but the metro does not span 3 states. It spans 2 states and a federal territory. Nice try though.

DC is a state: of confusion, dismay, disarray.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#53

The core problem is assholes on the trains. People stopped riding because there’s either someone dangerous, someone crazy, or someone tweaked out. Literally on every Bart car, probably 2/3 of the time I ride. I end up using the Bart watch app to report this stuff every other time I ride. One guy tried to light a seat in fire. Another tailgated me through the gates and proceeded to push past me. Another was slumped ov…

> Two cops on every train. One at every other station.

that will never ever happen.

I remember 15 years ago reading about how much BART police get paid, was supposed to be way up there to the point people got upset about it

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#54

The core problem is assholes on the trains. People stopped riding because there’s either someone dangerous, someone crazy, or someone tweaked out. Literally on every Bart car, probably 2/3 of the time I ride. I end up using the Bart watch app to report this stuff every other time I ride. One guy tried to light a seat in fire. Another tailgated me through the gates and proceeded to push past me. Another was slumped ov…

Cops are expensive. You can run a bus line all day for the cost of 3 officers. If you want cops everywhere, aside from the fact that the HN demographic is much more open to this than lower income folks, you're gonna have to deal with a much more expensive transit system which will cost taxpayers more.

The disconnect is frustrating though. Middle and low income people do not trust the police. Don't believe me? Just listen in on any public meeting. Multiple community members and community groups call in to talk about how much they hate the police. Nobody calls in about how much they were helped by the police, unless they live in a wealthy district.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#55
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a little confused by the reasoning here. You state that peak (commute) traffic is recovering but off-peak is still low, due to WFH? Wouldn’t WFH be impacting peak hours, with off-peak at all-time-low due to other things like leisure travel?

I'm not 100% on my reasoning, so I welcome alternate explanations. I suspect that a lot of part-time or odd-hour positions were most impacted by WFH. I'm guessing many of these have gone remote. Moreover, headway was cut back during the pandemic so folks who absolutely had to go into their positions may have invested in a car and don't feel the need to get back on transit because traffic off-peak is not too bad.

I’m going to guess that people still want to go to mixers and events and happy hours in SF and those still happen at the same time

If thats when peak hours are

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#57
post #50
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rode the DC metro with family because I was warned about parking and traffic in DC. BIG MISTAKE! On the second day I took a car, and it took 1/3 the time, and 1/10 the cost EVEN with searching and paying for parking. Public transit should be free.

Farebox recovery is so damn low that I can only think the fares remain as an excuse to kick homeless and other undesirables off who aren’t technically breaking any rules or laws.

It's a pretty new topic in the US and studies are being conducted on this. AC Transit recently did one (I can link it if there's interest.) Indeed, farebox recovery is low enough that one of the main arguments for fare enforcement is to kick problem riders off. This is most impactful for operators who have to deal with the passengers in a way we riders do not.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#58
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a little confused by the reasoning here. You state that peak (commute) traffic is recovering but off-peak is still low, due to WFH? Wouldn’t WFH be impacting peak hours, with off-peak at all-time-low due to other things like leisure travel?

I'm not 100% on my reasoning, so I welcome alternate explanations. I suspect that a lot of part-time or odd-hour positions were most impacted by WFH. I'm guessing many of these have gone remote. Moreover, headway was cut back during the pandemic so folks who absolutely had to go into their positions may have invested in a car and don't feel the need to get back on transit because traffic off-peak is not too bad.

I’ve always thought that the jobs most “susceptible” to WFH are the traditional, 9-5 white collar jobs. Am interested to know if this is correct (outside of software industry, especially).

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#59

I think BART is the perfect storm of commuter railroads that aren't going to recover. San Francisco is tech heavy, and tech still seems pretty work-from-home heavy. A problem I always wondered about is whether or not BART was the right system for San Francisco, as it seems a lot of the big companies are out in the suburbs and never had public transportation. I walked from the Mountain View train station to the Google…

I had high hopes for NYC when they hired the new MTA guy before Covid. But then he got pushed out by Cuomo and it seems like he was prevented from carrying out the reforms needed to fix the subway properly. I highly doubt the state, which controls the budget, will ever make the subway free. I am doubtful they will even pony up the cash to perform the maintenance the system truly needs.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#60

As the article states, the reason why BART is so heavily impacted is because it was mostly designed as commuter rail. BART is unique in that historically it paid most of its costs in farebox revenue. While peak-hour (morning and evening commute) ridership is catching up again (BART publishes numbers so you can check the work here), usage outside of peak hours is at an all-time low because of the increase of WFH jobs.…

> BART along the same alignment still moves 2x more people than the Bay Bridge does though, which is something to remember as non-users of BART clamor for its defunding.

Any source for that?

For BART numbers:

1. Is it traffic across the bay?

2. Or total traffic?

Edit: Digging up some data, I think it is #2, which seems a weird number to use.

BART total per day: ~400k Bay Bridge per day: ~200k

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco–Oakland_Bay_Brid...

https://www.bart.gov/sites/default/files/docs/June18FactShee...

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