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Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

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Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#51

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

HFTs are in the nanoseconds range, not milliseconds... They rent space AT the exchanges... They remove firewalls and such to shave even more time

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#52
post #9

> Although the laser system was not directly tested with an orbiting satellite, they accomplished high-data transmission over a free-space distance of 53km (33 miles). This is peanuts compared to under sea cables and issues you will find penetrating atmosphere and increasingly, space. We should keep under sea cables and work on additional connections to make our networks more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equ…

> more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equipment failures and sabotage. I think you're understating the risks from geomagnetic storms. In comparison to satellites, fiber optic cables seem like they'd be relatively unaffected even if the equipment attached to them needs replacement.

Are solar storms an issue for LEO sats?

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#53

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

HFTs are in the nanoseconds range, not milliseconds... They rent space AT the exchanges... They remove firewalls and such to shave even more time

Only within the DC, not between exchanges.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#54

The key thing here is it allows for very high bandwidth to go almost anywhere on earth, not just spots where it's easy to land a cable. Starlink's already demonstrated how great that is for consumer bandwidth (50Mbps); a multi-gigabit link terminated at a satellite is fantastic. The part that impresses me most is they're talking about LEO satellites. Those move fast! Starlink does this with a very impressive phased a…

It also circumvents the biggest problem with fiber, politics. Starlink doesn’t need permission to run a backbone across (or rather over) a country. This will be revolutionary for people in Africa, South America, and huge swaths of Asia/Australia where a few telecom monopolies have artificially jacked the price of transit.

IIUC, it only circumvents politics due to existing treaties. Those old treaties are likely ripe for revision with the extensive commercialization and the increasing number of countries capable of launching payloads into space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_outer_space

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#56

They transmit in near infrared in an environment that is full of particles, wouldn't this cause light pollution in a spectrum many animals would be impacted by? Also, doesn't this have the issue that anything passing through the beam cuts off internet? A bird, a kite, a malicious actor, a dust storm?

This seems like a reasonable question, on its face. I have NIR illumination on my surveillance cameras and insects are VERY interested in it. Every night I get at least one bat hanging out by my camera. I'm fairly certain it's because the camera attracts insects.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#57
This tech is really cool, but as they mentioned, they have not tested this with a moving satellite. Because any antenna would need to be localized on a satellite for transmission, you’re going to be stuck with having to maintain (likely) expensive and precise motors who’s job it will be to run in perpetuity. However, I would be confident that stepper motors of this grade will come down in price or will become more available.

My primary concern comes down to reliably. Your ground station must now accurately target moving satellites, negotiate handoffs, and reroute when necessary. Architecturally, you will need to develop the ground station with at least three transponders: an A link, B link, and a redundant Z link. The A and B take turns localizing to their satellite where one is only allowed to move positions if the other is currently active. The backup Z link is on standby in case of failure or maintenance. The three would likely rotate roles periodically to keep time on each of the motors more evenly distributed amongst them. This system must work in harmony with all the satellites in its network. The satellite system has its own maintenance burden too, including orbital decay requiring you to periodically adjust its position until it runs out of propellant, and send more up when it’s reached the end of its useful life. To me, this is a ton of moving parts.

An undersea cable by contrast, will pretty much be maintenance free once laid only requiring infrequent repairs in the event of a wayward ship anchor. Yes, the data center components will need to upgraded periodically but you don’t need to replace the transmission mode. There are no moving parts, no need To track objects hundreds of miles away, just sending light down a tube.

Is this tech cool? Absolutely. Will it replace undersea cables? Probably not soon, but I can see this as a great solution to link remote islands where it does not make strategic sense to run a cable, or where it is difficult or uneconomical to run a terrestrial connection.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#58

The key thing here is it allows for very high bandwidth to go almost anywhere on earth, not just spots where it's easy to land a cable. Starlink's already demonstrated how great that is for consumer bandwidth (50Mbps); a multi-gigabit link terminated at a satellite is fantastic. The part that impresses me most is they're talking about LEO satellites. Those move fast! Starlink does this with a very impressive phased a…

It also circumvents the biggest problem with fiber, politics. Starlink doesn’t need permission to run a backbone across (or rather over) a country. This will be revolutionary for people in Africa, South America, and huge swaths of Asia/Australia where a few telecom monopolies have artificially jacked the price of transit.

It definitely helps mitigate the infrastructure buildout hurdles (which are not small), but they would still need to jump through any "I need to do business in this country" regulations, etc.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#59
post #21

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

> require a generational shift to deploy. Photonic bandgap / Bragg fiber is being produced in quantity, and some subsea cables are using it. I'm pretty sure it's the satellite lasers that require the generational shift. One subsea cable has no bearing on any other; once the first is installed, you're up and running. not so with laser-connected swarms.

Starlink's laser connections have been active for a year now.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#60
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congrats, you've reinvented microwave lines, widely deployed in exactly this manner.

The big difference between open air laser and microwave links is that one of them doesn't require licensed spectrum. The costs of doing it will be much lower.

Fair! And the existing MW re-translator towers can be upgraded / reused this way.

Lasers have a downside though: optical and near IR light is much more readily absorbed by water vapor than microwaves. I wonder if a maser would be an acceptable solution, if cheaper versions of it existed.

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