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In the Future Everything Will Be A Coffee Shop

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51–60 of 68 posts

Re: In the Future Everything Will Be A Coffee Shop

#51

Post by georgemcfly »

Universities will shrink to coffeshops? That's a very CS/math-centric viewpoint. How are you going to do MITx with with Chemsitry? Physics? Biology? Med School? Anything that requires specialized equipment? How will you do team projects that require people to be in physical proximity to one another (building complicated things, for instance).

Universities aren't going away. At most, some programs may become "virtualized" but even then there's a lot of value add with college. They have specialized libraries and librarians to help you find information that may not be on the internet. They can afford expensive equipment and the people to take care of them. It's often useful just to be around people in your same program to talk about projects and learn from each other. It may not be $100k value add, but that just means college will get less expensive and possibly shrink, not that it will go away all together.

Re: In the Future Everything Will Be A Coffee Shop

#52

Post by reinhardt »

LukeRB wrote: post #41

This post raises a bigger question for the US: What will we do with all of the vacant retail space that is abandoned as shopping continues to go online? I wonder if there are companies out there working on innovative ways to fill this space. After all, not _everything_ will be a coffee shop...right?

Parking lots

Re: In the Future Everything Will Be A Coffee Shop

#53

Post by MBlume »

philwelch wrote: post #30
MBlume wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guaranteed income. If the economy doesn't require everyone's labor, a bunch of people just shouldn't work, so make sure they can eat and you're done. I don't understand all this American obsession with jobs for everyone.

Jobs provide more than income, they also help with self-esteem and prevent idleness, which in turn keeps things like crime down. I think useless make-work jobs are ultimately more feasible than guaranteed income for those reasons.

> prevent idleness, which in turn keeps things like crime down

This, this right here is exactly the kind of puritan thinking I find infuriating.

Seriously, leisure as a terminal negative term in your utility function?! Never mind the people who are going to use the time to learn, to create art and share it, to spend time with their families -- if we don't shackle people to their counters and desks, they'll be rioting in the streets!

How much theft/violence do you think is driven by need, by looking for a way to get by? If anything, I would expect violence and theft to go down.

Re: In the Future Everything Will Be A Coffee Shop

#54

Post by mitchellhislop »

kiba wrote: post #21
mdasen wrote: post #20

This somewhat assumes that the purpose of universities is to gain knowledge useful to employers. While that might be a purpose of it, universities are also screening mechanisms. This is something by people in educational economics. While I think the author has a great point that we're looking to get workers who can get the job done, that isn't necessarily how businesses hire. The benefits from education don't just co…

This is something by people in educational economics. While I think the author has a great point that we're looking to get workers who can get the job done, that isn't necessarily how businesses hire. The benefits from education don't just come in the form of increased human capital. Basically, you get bonus points for having the degree regardless of what it means to your human capital (there's a term for it that I c…

Yup - its a general economics type of theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_(economics)

Re: In the Future Everything Will Be A Coffee Shop

#55

Post by pyoung »

ctdonath wrote: post #40
karamazov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"free food" doesn't necessarily mean a communist society where everything is free - it means providing an income level that allows for the necessities of life. It probably makes more sense to give those away than it does to force people to work meaningless jobs just so we feel they aren't getting something for "free" - if the jobs don't produce value, then the workers are getting something for free, they're just also…

It's amazing how many people will settle for a free "necessities of life" income. TV makes it very easy to waste time with satisfaction. Few will use the opportunity for creative productivity. Most will be freeloaders. Whatever the arguable percentages, it creates a drag on the productive by depriving them of the value of their work.

A television is not a 'necessity', and if the policy is designed correctly the income should be designed to support just the bare minimum of existence, i.e. food, shelter, and some sort of health care. This can be done providing debit cards or other payment systems that only allow the recipient to spend the funds on approved items.

Most first rate economies already have fairly extensive welfare systems in place, and you do not see people begging to get fired from their jobs so that they can get unemployment. Most people have at least some ambition to increase their social and economic status and that won't change.

Re: In the Future Everything Will Be A Coffee Shop

#57

Post by jrockway »

philwelch wrote: post #31
onemoreact wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent last year living next door to the mall. I went there for food, clothing, and some candles and that's about it. I live 1 block from a Best Buy and still buy all my electronics online, and I am happy to replace the local bookstore which died with my kindle. Thanksgiving was the last time I went into a grocery store (Peapod). Gas is just about the only thing I can't buy online and buying an electric car is becom…

The malls aren't for you, they're for people--predominately women--who shop recreationally.

Based on the amount of not-strictly-necessary stuff I own, I'm pretty sure I shop recreationally too... but I still don't go to malls or Worst Buy.

Re: In the Future Everything Will Be A Coffee Shop

#58

Post by batista »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #47
batista wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for where there can. Economic productivity is nowhere close to decoupling from population mass yet, but when it does, you won't need low or semi-skilled workers. You don't need workers to have productivity, but you need people not being rich to have riches. And those people need to be fed, clothed, etc. And they also need money, to be able to buy things and services, else you cannot sell them. So, you either t…

That's only true if you define "rich" as "I have a lot more than you." If you define rich to mean "I have way more than I will ever need" then there is ultimately no reason that everyone can't be rich. It just takes a while to get there. Personally I'd prefer the latter. Eliminating poverty makes everyone better off.

That's only true if you define "rich" as "I have a lot more than you." If you define rich to mean "I have way more than I will ever need" then there is ultimately no reason that everyone can't be rich. It just takes a while to get there.

The problem I described is multi-faceted, and I might not have made a good job at it, or some people might not have understood me (judging from the knee-jerk downvotes).

One issue is societal wealth. As a society, everybody can be "rich" in the sense you describe, but I already addressed that in the part where I write about the "Star Trek/socialism scheme, where social wealth is shared". I am fine with that kind of a society. I just don't see that this is what we are currently approaching with automation, etc, but rather huge poor masses and an middle class in decline.

So, my other argument was about what is actually happening, i.e. the continuation of the current model + automation. And what I said, is that if you believe --as many do--, that corporations, enterpreneurs, buying and selling stuff, in essence a market economy is crucial, then you need poorer people with jobs, ie. you need consumers. You cannot have a market economy AND everyone being rich in the "I have more than you" sense, and you cannot have a market economy AND the great masses out of work due to automation.

So, my argument is, automation is ultimately non compatible with a market economy. You get either sharing for everybody (i.e no market economy), or a collapse in buying power / sales (i.e a poor market economy).

(A final point, re everyone being rich in the "I have enough" sense: beyond the basics, "needs" are themselves a social construct. To a caveman, or a 17th century peasant, a man working at McDonalds with a house, tv, food, internet, bathroom, modern medicine, etc, seems as "more that he will ever need". To his contemporaries, not so much).

Re: In the Future Everything Will Be A Coffee Shop

#59

Post by batista »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #50
batista wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for where there can. Economic productivity is nowhere close to decoupling from population mass yet, but when it does, you won't need low or semi-skilled workers. You don't need workers to have productivity, but you need people not being rich to have riches. And those people need to be fed, clothed, etc. And they also need money, to be able to buy things and services, else you cannot sell them. So, you either t…

The material and energy intensity of consumption, per capita, has increased exponentially over the past centuries. There is no reason to not expect it to continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Thus, you don't need an army of low-wage consumers to buy things from the wealthy. You need people not being rich to have riches Echoing another point made in this thread, but wealth differentials doesn't mean you need t…

The material and energy intensity of consumption, per capita, has increased exponentially over the past centuries. There is no reason to not expect it to continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Thus, you don't need an army of low-wage consumers to buy things from the wealthy.

The "material and energy intensity of consumption, per capita, has increased exponentially over the past centuries" EXACTLY because of the creation first and constant availability of "an army of low-wage consumers".

People were taught to hold jobs in the way we do now, and they were taught to consume, in the way we do now. The vast masses of the people not only consumed much less, but made their own everything, from clothes and shoes, to vegetables and housing. Like an Amish community.

A decline in the middle class, e.g by migration of their jobs abroad, translate to a decline in economy, unless you can create new jobs at the same rate, which currently we can't, and the economy took a hit.

Echoing another point made in this thread, but wealth differentials doesn't mean you need to have poor people.

No, but a market economy needs people poor enough to have to work and at the same time rich enough to be able to spend money on things.

Automation can eliminate the need to have people working, but it cannot eliminate the need to have people spending --except if you move beyond a market economy.

Re: In the Future Everything Will Be A Coffee Shop

#60

Post by jonybluz »

yeah right. Correspondance school courses aren't for everyone, even if they are hosted online these days(shiny and new, nothing like the old!). not everyone can grind it out in solitude. most people need strong social interaction associated with educational experiences to keep them interested. witness the prevalance of fraternity/sorority life on campus
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