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Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#51
post #32

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

On the contrary I’ve never had a usb cable fail short of physical damage (from a cat). What are you doing with your cables? On the topic of connectors, I still think Apple’s lightning connector is the most robust connection the industry has enjoyed in recent times, and most robust for its size ever. I’m sad that iPhones are going the way of USB-C.

> What are you doing with your cables?

Plugging and unplugging things up to a few times per day. Occasionally using a phone while plugged in. Using a laptop in a lap. These last two will occasionally produce mild lateral stress. The cable will occasionally (like, every few weeks at most) experience mild tension due to moving a device while the cable is mildly snagged, and on rare occasions they have experienced more extreme jerking tension (and this was likely a factor in my most recent cable’s failure, but most of the cables that have failed have never experienced anything like this). As far as twisting: most of the cables have been used just on a desk or similar (other than when the connected device is being held), only rarely being moved (once every few months, at most), at which time it’s coiled with a radius of at least 15cm.

Seriously, these cables are not often being abused, and a couple of them have even absolutely always been treated very gently (and accordingly they’ve failed in the Micro-B connector), and I’ve heard similar stories from others. No one’s laptop power cables last more than five years, that I’ve heard. The slight flexing that you get from completely normal use is enough to do them all in.

As for Micro-B connectors, they’re supposed to be rated for 10,000 insert/remove cycles, but I’ve never had one last even 2,000 cycles before starting to become unreliable in the connector (… if it hasn’t already become unreliable in the cable/connector junction), even for a cable that was always used in ideal circumstances (gently plugged in, resting on a table). Accordingly, when I read cycle rating numbers for hardware, I start by dividing by ten, then maybe it’s reasonable.

I suppose I should also mention that I do have two very short A–C and A–Micro-B charging cables that are generally used less than once a week which have lasted for 2–2½ years so far and are still fine. But that doesn’t count since it’s not anything like daily usage.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#52
post #36
post #22

My current client-issued contracting laptop has a 230W power adapter. Runs cool and silent'ish during Laravel/TypeScript webdev. JetBrains IDE barely manages to spin the fans a bit noticeable before it goes back to smooth sailing. So a 180W adapter no longer causes me to react much. But I bet it would run pretty hot and loud if I toyed around with stable diffusion and a bunch more containers. And then there are abosl…

An M2 Pro draws around 20W with IntelliJ development, usually it hovers at around 12W. Gaming with GeForce Now keeps it at 12W as well. I am baffled by the need for over ten fold power adapters.

I don't think 13gen intel laptops draw much more than 40w for mundane development like ours. But I'd have to measure.

My laptop sports a RTX 3080. That's probably the main driver for such max power needs.

Obviously Geforce Now doesn't incur in more power draw as it delegates running games to the cloud.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#53
post #14

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

> Does anyone make cables that don’t fall apart ridiculously quickly, failing at the cable/plug junction? I always hear that Apple cables are prone to falling apart but I’ve had USB-C chargers for my laptop since 2017, carried them around everywhere, didn’t baby them, and they’re mostly fine. They’re kinda yellow and brown now instead of white but that’s the worst of it. Genuinely not sure if I’m doing something diff…

The Magsafe cables are the ones I've had problems with every time. I read that a decision to remove PVC from the plastic was what made them so fragile.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#55
post #11

Virtually all of the electrical energy put into a computer is turned into heat, right? Some of it comes out as visible light from the screen and some tiny portion of it is.. converted into information I guess? But generally a 180W computer is putting out very nearly 180W of thermal energy, as I understand it. My point is that laptops with 90W adapters can get too hot to comfortably touch, I think at 180W you're well…

You can equip this thing with 4 Thunderbolt ports. Each such port is required to provide 15W to connected accessories, and they have to plan for the worst-case current, which inclusive of the greediest CPU and GPU you can configure this diving board with adds up to a huge (worst-case) power draw.

Also, if the user has a dead battery,they want to be able to plug in and charge, ideally while also doing some reasonably heavy computing. So you again need more power than the laptop itself is using.

This is the one case (AFAIK) where input power isn't being converted to some kind of heat: it's being stored in the battery as energy for latter.

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