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San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

latimes.com

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Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#51

Post by Sharlin »

crote wrote: post #38
Sharlin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, human drivers are not validated either to function correctly in those scenarios. Though it would certainly be nice if they were.

If a human did this, they would probably be arrested and lose their driver's license. Stuff like this is something you just can't do . But self-driving cars get away with it because we haven't figured out how to hold them responsible yet.

But the GP was about pre-certification. We do that to some extent in the form of driver’s licenses, but as far as I know getting one is more or less a formality in many parts of the US in particular.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#52

Post by jayrot »

jb12 wrote: post #39

This past weekend in SF, I saw a driver slow and stop to reverse parallel park on Bush Street at Fillmore. An automated Cruise car stopped right behind him, blocking the driver from reversing into the parking spot. The guy got out to yell at the driver to back up, but then saw that it was driverless. He drove off, and someone else got the spot.

It's not a bug it's a feature?

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#53

Post by c00lio »

rurp wrote: post #20

The specific examples listed out in the article are egregious, causing real harm. The fire chief is right to be angry, if anything her response is too measured. From the article: - Running through yellow emergency tape and ignoring warning signs to enter a street strewn with storm-damaged electrical wires, then driving past emergency vehicles with some of those wires snarled around rooftop lidar sensors. - Twice bloc…

If this were a human driver, at least half of those would loose you your driver's license. Why are there no such consequences for the companies?

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#54

Post by shagie »

kindatrue wrote: post #18
tomohawk wrote: post #3

A family member was a NY fire fighter many years ago. The Soviets had a lot of people at the UN, and they had diplomatic plates. They would park wherever they wanted, often blocking things. There was nothing the police could do. The fire chief decided to have fire drills. Whenever a cop saw a car with diplomatic plates parked in front of a hydrant, they would call the fire department, who would come out and perform a…

Damn that's rough. I saw a car parked in front a fire hydrant at a fire in Queens once. FDNY simply smashed the windows to open the doors, and then ran a hose through it.

As an aside, the "why not over, under, or around?" question that gets asked.

https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/hoselines-wate...

That has some "how much pressure can be loss to friction and still provide the necessary water rate at the other end." Bends in the hose will increase the amount of friction and thus reduce the flow rate.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#55

Post by junon »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #25
yardie wrote: post #2

It appears these robotaxis need an emergency button similar to the ones on industrial robots. But instead of completely stopping, a remote operator immediately takes over and bugs out. Meanwhile, the AI can take a backseat and observe how to respond in a situation like this. Because obviously they don't have enough training when dealing with emergency situations.

The closest I've come to this scenario is playing games (eg CSGO) where you can take over a bot. So often, I take over a bot (without spectating their play first) and immediately die because I have no context for their situation and they're about to be shot at; in many of those situations I feel there bot would have done better than I did. This makes me feel a human operator probably would be no good at taking contro…

Ehhh I think you give too much credit to CSGO bots.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#56

Post by jeffbee »

jb12 wrote: post #39

This past weekend in SF, I saw a driver slow and stop to reverse parallel park on Bush Street at Fillmore. An automated Cruise car stopped right behind him, blocking the driver from reversing into the parking spot. The guy got out to yell at the driver to back up, but then saw that it was driverless. He drove off, and someone else got the spot.

Did they signal? This has happened to me many times with humans driving right up on my bumper even while I signal and am in reverse gear.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#58

Post by whartung »

rurp wrote: post #20

The specific examples listed out in the article are egregious, causing real harm. The fire chief is right to be angry, if anything her response is too measured. From the article: - Running through yellow emergency tape and ignoring warning signs to enter a street strewn with storm-damaged electrical wires, then driving past emergency vehicles with some of those wires snarled around rooftop lidar sensors. - Twice bloc…

There's that scene from a TV show where the fire fighters are at a fire, and a car is in front of the fire hydrant. One of the characters calls out "Car!" and they then proceed to smash the windows, and route the fire hose through the car and connect it to the fire hydrant. Throughout the course of the incident, the hydrant leaks and fills the cars interior with water.

If only there was, perhaps, a similar effective, and cathartic response to these things.

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#59

Post by taylodl »

Sharlin wrote: post #33
dopylitty wrote: post #24

It’s absolutely insane that automated driving is allowed on public streets. It should be completely banned until such time as there exists a comprehensive testing regime for validating that the automated system functions in all the scenarios it might be expected to face including emergency vehicles, construction, pedestrians, bad weather, and damaged sensors.

To be fair, human drivers are not validated either to function correctly in those scenarios. Though it would certainly be nice if they were.

Excuse me? I had to pass a written exam and pass a driving test and maneuverability test in order to get my license. It's insane we're allowing these vehicles on public streets without a licensure process in place. We do that for aircraft, why aren't we doing it for self-driving cars?

Re: San Francisco fire chief fed up with robotaxis that mess with her firetrucks

#60

Post by Projectiboga »

rurp wrote: post #20

The specific examples listed out in the article are egregious, causing real harm. The fire chief is right to be angry, if anything her response is too measured. From the article: - Running through yellow emergency tape and ignoring warning signs to enter a street strewn with storm-damaged electrical wires, then driving past emergency vehicles with some of those wires snarled around rooftop lidar sensors. - Twice bloc…

Time for Zero Tolerance, if one of these do it seize it, and levy the robotaxi company and whomever built it with Huge Fines. Not "oh that will just be another expense", make it that those fines pierce the corporate veil and get to the executives and the millionaire shareholders. And now that I think of it, if there are any passengers, arrest them. That way they can sue the RoboTaxi company too.
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