Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

thecodist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 263 posts

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#51

Post by x5315 »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #36
x5315 wrote: post #21

I work at Twitter, where i regularly work longs hours (my standard work day is something like 10 - 19:30) and am frequently on call. I even spend time at the weekends thinking and hacking on specific problems. I feel that the author's post doesn't apply in my case, because: - Some of the problems i work on are amazing. They're interesting and fun, and i enjoy them outside the normal "work hours". - Twitter has an "un…

Right, if it is something you actually want to be doing then that is one thing. But, I bet you are not married and have kids or if you do, they may not be as happy with you as you might think. It's just reality. As for the Steve Jobs thing, yes I get that. But it's one thing to be Steve Jobs and have this legacy that they make documentaries about and it's another to have just been a cog, even if it's a popular compan…

I feel like you've got a little over-dramatic here.

Firstly, i'm not married nor do i have children. Secondly, these things will come, in time.

I find it discouraging that you feel that one can't take pride or enjoy work while being "a cog". This isn't about 'everlasting glory'; it's about enjoyment, it's about fun, it's about being proud about what you've created and owning it, it's about respect from your peers, it's about being a part of something.

As you said, "if it is something you actually want to be doing then that is one thing". It is. It is exactly what i want to be doing.

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#52

Post by latch »

potatolicious wrote: post #50
latch wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, he suggests that no one should work overtime, which isn't practical for people who can't afford to get fired. Second, he suggest that there's no benefit to working over time, while many would see keeping your job as a benefit. I'm not sure if he realizes that refusal to work overtime can, in itself, be a reason to get fired, or if that consequence simply doesn't matter to him. Either way, saying that they shou…

It's only impractical in a poor job market. I take it you write code? As a fellow Canadian, I have only one suggestion: get the fuck out of Canada. The market for programmers is piss poor, the selection of jobs anemic and mostly drudge-work monkeying. There are other geographies that offer much more interesting work, double-to-triple Canadian salaries, and a strong enough employment scene that nobody can hold much ov…

I was in Canada for most of my life. I'm in Asia now. I agree, getting the heck out of Canada is a good idea.

None of this is about me. I just think the article really comes off quite sheltered..."I can do what I want and who cares if I get fired, so should you!"

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#53

Post by alan_cx »

I don't know much about US employment law, and what I do know, I don't like. But what I do know is this:

No employer has ever, ever given me free money, and I have never expected it. There for, I have never ever given an employer free time, and never ever will.

To do different is insane. It lowers one's worth since the deal is an exchange of money for time. It makes the employer think your free time is theirs to exploit and frankly damn wrong.

Like I say, the day employers give out free money is the time I give out free time.

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#55

Post by urbanjunkie »

grellas wrote: post #48

The U.S. has a strong free enterprise foundation and its laws reflect this. Freedom of contract remains the rule even though it is much criticized in some circles and has been hedged considerably over the years. In employment, the old rule was that you could pretty much fire anyone at will for any reason and, if you did, you incurred no legal consequence. This is pure freedom of contract. In time, this unrestricted f…

"I don't believe that most such employees see their work as "slavery" when they have to work excessive hours. I think they see it as career development"

That made me laugh.

"Top executives" typically have compensation packages that, to some degree, directly tie their compensation to the overall company performance. Thus, the harder they work, the more likely it is that the company will perform to or above expectations, and thus the more likely it is that their stock or option package compensate them for the "excessive hours". These "top executives" are also incentivised, by their compensation structure, to obtain as much value as possible out of fixed-cost resources.

But, as an average employee, without generous option packages, you start to rationalise the 8th week of working 80 hours as "career development", because the alternative is to confront the fact that you are helpless and beholden and powerless to refuse to work the extra hours without risking your health insurance, or your job.

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#56

Post by BadassFractal »

alan_cx wrote: post #53

I don't know much about US employment law, and what I do know, I don't like. But what I do know is this: No employer has ever, ever given me free money, and I have never expected it. There for, I have never ever given an employer free time, and never ever will. To do different is insane. It lowers one's worth since the deal is an exchange of money for time. It makes the employer think your free time is theirs to expl…

It's at-will employment, if you don't like it, you can leave at any point. Basically if you don't like being exploited, quit and get it over with. As people pointed out though, it's a different story once health care is part of the equation.

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#57

Post by krolley »

x5315 wrote: post #21

I work at Twitter, where i regularly work longs hours (my standard work day is something like 10 - 19:30) and am frequently on call. I even spend time at the weekends thinking and hacking on specific problems. I feel that the author's post doesn't apply in my case, because: - Some of the problems i work on are amazing. They're interesting and fun, and i enjoy them outside the normal "work hours". - Twitter has an "un…

Does your 10 - 19:30 (9.5 hour) day also include time for lunch and dinner that twitter generously provides?

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#58

Post by x5315 »

krolley wrote: post #57
x5315 wrote: post #21

I work at Twitter, where i regularly work longs hours (my standard work day is something like 10 - 19:30) and am frequently on call. I even spend time at the weekends thinking and hacking on specific problems. I feel that the author's post doesn't apply in my case, because: - Some of the problems i work on are amazing. They're interesting and fun, and i enjoy them outside the normal "work hours". - Twitter has an "un…

Does your 10 - 19:30 (9.5 hour) day also include time for lunch and dinner that twitter generously provides?

Yep.

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#59

Post by troels »

x5315 wrote: post #21

I work at Twitter, where i regularly work longs hours (my standard work day is something like 10 - 19:30) and am frequently on call. I even spend time at the weekends thinking and hacking on specific problems. I feel that the author's post doesn't apply in my case, because: - Some of the problems i work on are amazing. They're interesting and fun, and i enjoy them outside the normal "work hours". - Twitter has an "un…

> Twitter has an "unlimited"—be respectful to your team—holiday policy. I've probably taken about 6-7 weeks off in my one and a quarter years here.

Curious as to how these things work in the states. I take it that you pay for the time off from your salary? (E.g. you don't get any for the period) Do you have any time off that is paid by your employer?

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#60

Post by mjwalshe »

wisty wrote: post #39

Towards the end, he gets to the main point - the US health system is not set up for people who aren't wage slaves for a big company. The idea that a company should pay your pension is also kind of dumb.

Why pension is deferred pay and companys get a tax break on their contributions as well as you.
Post reply on HN