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What motorcycles teach about maintenance

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Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#51

Post by sublimefire »

artisanspam wrote: post #30

I’m curious to hear the perspective of someone who is both into motorcycles and bicycles, as I’ve only ridden on a motorcycle a handful of times, while I cycle nearly daily. Bicycle maintenance can be annoying, but it doesn’t seem nearly as time-intensive as motorcycle maintenance. On the other hand, the process of cycling feels better to me compared to being on a motor bike. It’s quieter, slower, and great exercise.…

Motorcycles these days need little maintenance, except washing it. I know I know you need to look after the chain and do the pre-ride checks, but that is it. I own 2 motorcycles, one new and the other old. The old one needs some stuff done but I cannot do that myself because of a couple of issues: do not have a garage, do not have all the tools. The new one needs nothing, it just rides and I need to bring it for servicing once in a year.

The most annoying thing for me is that I can leave the motorcycle outside with a lock but I need to bring in my bicycle into the garden shed (it is just too light).

Bicycle on the other hand is different, it is much easier to get a puncture, the bolts get lose, it wears off much more quickly. You can also fix it in your home, e.g. change tubes and tires easily.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#52

Post by Retric »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #31
Kapura wrote: post #24

I've been watching mechanic channels on YouTube recently when I need some background noise, and It's very interesting to see them do their once overs on the car, and hear their initial theories get confirmed or disconfirmed as they move through the vehicle. You can feel their experience for the sorts of issues that are likely or unlikely, and the focus on root cause (whether a botched repair job or something broken f…

If we're talking about the same channel it also shows the fallacy of having a small engine. A 1L 3cyl Ecoboost w/ 120hp has the same highway MPG as my 3L 6cyl w/ 340hp. Smaller engines push in extra fuel to cool: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aO2vC_iMTI

Yea no, you misunderstood what was being described driving at normal highway speeds is a low load in his examples.

It’s more accurate to say these engines are more efficient under normal driving conditions, but have the option to be driven at high acceleration or extreme speed. Anyone can get poor gas mileage in a Prius if they drive like a race car driver, nobody has the option to drive a big V6 efficiently.

Aka Nobody publishes cannonball run fuel efficiency because that’s abnormal conditions.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#53

Post by Velofellow »

artisanspam wrote: post #30

I’m curious to hear the perspective of someone who is both into motorcycles and bicycles, as I’ve only ridden on a motorcycle a handful of times, while I cycle nearly daily. Bicycle maintenance can be annoying, but it doesn’t seem nearly as time-intensive as motorcycle maintenance. On the other hand, the process of cycling feels better to me compared to being on a motor bike. It’s quieter, slower, and great exercise.…

Very much into both!

I'm at an extreme end on of the cycling hobby by hours spent on the bike and miles covered (mountain biking, road biking, racing) and currently ride a very modern, and very red Italian sport bike - just for pleasure on quiet roads, no commuting or errand running. From a maintenance perspective given my use patterns (~8,000 miles/year human powered, ~4,000 miles moto powered) I'm wrenching, fixing, replacing parts far more often on my bicycles. An absolute money pit, but one that gives me the best emotional and physical ROI. YMMV but my experience with modern motorcycles has been they are almost shockingly reliable given their power output, electrical and rider aid improvements, etc.

I've had vintage motorcycles that required more tinkering which is engaging in its own right but am thankful modern tech has gotten to a point where I'm not constantly doing maintenance on my entire two wheeled fleet. I get my joy from the use of the machine, rather than the upkeep. I'm eternally grateful to those who view things the other way. My preference is to wrench on bicycles though, mainly because of their relative simplicity and limited number of specialty tools required. With 2mm-8mm allen keys, and a small screw driver you can do most basics of maintenance. Not counting suspension service, bearing service, and the like.

Side note: Being deep into both worlds I feel that my bike (motorcycle) handling skills have vastly improved because of my mountain biking: Body positioning, threshold braking, leaning the bike independently of the body vs. leaning with the bike etc. Curious if anyone else here has had that same realization. I've tried converting some cycling team mates to the moto world... few takers but I believe there is true cross-training to be had there.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#54

Post by tonymet »

There is a major step change in maintenance difficulty from motorcycles to cars .

motorcycles are more exposed and intimate so it’s easier to detect issues earlier .

Modern cars have adopted more non-user-serviceable tech. Intermediate procedures like clutch replacement , brake maintenance , tune ups are accessible to beginners on a motorcycle .

in general motorcycle maintenance is more accessible due to the open drive train, smaller footprint and user-serviceable technology .

For those discouraged to put their life in their own hands – it’s much riskier to put your life into someone else’s . You can mitigate the risks with checklists and solid testing procedures . Trust me , you will develop safety and quality standards that are much more rigorous than a shop .

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#55

Post by Velofellow »

tonymet wrote: post #47
artisanspam wrote: post #30

I’m curious to hear the perspective of someone who is both into motorcycles and bicycles, as I’ve only ridden on a motorcycle a handful of times, while I cycle nearly daily. Bicycle maintenance can be annoying, but it doesn’t seem nearly as time-intensive as motorcycle maintenance. On the other hand, the process of cycling feels better to me compared to being on a motor bike. It’s quieter, slower, and great exercise.…

I spend more time on a bicycle , including commuting , and ride a motorcycle regularly. The two hobbies complement each other well. The riding experience and maintenance skills are complementary . Motorcycles naturally offer more range for explanation and carry more load . i use mine to discover new routes and destinations and later hit them on the bike Motorcycle handling requires similar techniques and the mindfuln…

was typing my reply before I saw your comment. Glad to see someone else being a proponent of the "do both!" camp. Happy riding.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#56

Post by Fradow »

ecefour wrote: post #46
artisanspam wrote: post #30

I’m curious to hear the perspective of someone who is both into motorcycles and bicycles, as I’ve only ridden on a motorcycle a handful of times, while I cycle nearly daily. Bicycle maintenance can be annoying, but it doesn’t seem nearly as time-intensive as motorcycle maintenance. On the other hand, the process of cycling feels better to me compared to being on a motor bike. It’s quieter, slower, and great exercise.…

To me bicycle maintenance is tedious. It’s something I do too on keep my bike running smoothly but not something I look forward to. Motorcycle maintenance is more rewarding. I have a 70s bike so it requires a lot of work to keep it running smoothly. Motorcycle maintenance more complex and I find far more enjoyment in it. It can be tedious, but it’s not as bad as adjusting a derailleur or lubricating a chain. I think…

I do car maintenance rather than motorcycle maintenance, but same opinion: bicycle maintenance is tedious. So tedious that beside chain greasing and tires pressure, I pay someone rather than DIY. I hate adjusting breaks or gears with a passion.

On the other hand, cars (and I assume motorcycle as well) maintenance is enjoyable: there is no fiddling with stuff, you fit it, torque it and it's good.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#57

Post by avmich »

> Maintainers learn to be causation experts when dealing with repair. They build two narratives, one for finding the problem, and one for solving the problem.

I'd prefer to have those narratives delivered as part of the product when maintainer is hired.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#58

Post by Fradow »

ambicapter wrote: post #42
Fradow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also have a plan B if things go south. And yes, that means not working on your daily (or someone else) if you don't have a backup transportation solution. Because just like we have bugs in production, things break when you wrench on them, even if you do everything by the book (note: first-hand experience there). But those are just setbacks, and no big deal if you are prepared for them.

So basically if you want to work on your vehicle, you need a second vehicle. That was basically the reason I could never get behind doing work on my own car.

"Backup transportation solution", it can be public transit, or even a bicycle if it's enough to get you where you need to, but yes that's my opinion.

Even something as simple as an oil change can go wrong. Drain plug broke and you need a new one? Or you forgot to put a gasket and it leaks and now all your oil is on the floor? Well, now you need a trip to the parts store, or order it and wait until parts get there.

In my case, it was a routine maintenance operation: changing brake fluid. I used a power bleeder, and at a third of the pressure specified on the manual, the reservoir ruptured. So now I needed a new reservoir. Parts store didn't have it, and it took 2 weeks to get there.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#59

Post by futureproofd »

mikestew wrote: post #7
1970-01-01 wrote: post #4

>One time, when a customer asked him to help revive a beloved 1983 Honda Magma V45 that hadn’t been driven for two years, Crawford responded harshly: “Assuming it’s got all the usual problems from sitting, you’re looking at a thousand dollars to get it back on the road. First, it is the Honda Magna . Second, this mechanic took him to the cleaners. The Magna isn't nearly as complex as a Goldwing. $1000 for cleaning th…

You obviously RTFA, but it's intellectually dishonest to state that all it needs is a new battery and a little carb cleaner. Sure, you get it running, and take it down the road. Now the forks seals demonstrate that they're dried out and cracked, and leaking oil. I don't know how old the bike was at the time of writing, but let's assume 30 years old. Odds are really good that the brake lines have never been replaced.…

Here in Ontario at least, when you transfer ownership of a bike, you have to get it certified for safety. In my case, the bike was an '81 xs400 which required a fork seal replacement and new front tire (due to side wall damage). With parts and labour I paid approximately $500. Fair enough.

Now, if he had recommended a full carb clean and battery replacement, of course that would bring the total to over $1000. Those recommendations are optional though, and your bike can live without them (if you enjoy using the kickstarter constantly ;)

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#60

Post by bityard »

dmckeon wrote: post #41

I expected the writer's footnote regarding organ donation to be anecdotal, but was surprised to find studies confirming a small, but significant basis in fact: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/articl... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33334475/ https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/motorcycle-rallies-and-o...

People in the medical field refer to motorcycle riders pejoratively as "organ donors".

Which is fair, given how most riders I see out on the road have zero concern for their own safety, let alone others.

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