Earlier quoted context omitted.
European Union is not a sovereign entity that can have its 'own' military.
Why not? What's preventing the EU from making a law that established a European military force?
The US. That's what.
Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?
51–60 of 128 posts
Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?
#52It simply doesn't make any sense for most European countries. First of all, there is no viable way to actually use conscripts. Sending them overseas to die over a patch of dirt is a really bad move, as the Vietnam war has shown. Europe doesn't really want to invade anyone, so you're left with defense. So who's going to invade? The only foe even worth considering is Russia - and NATO's combined professional armies are…
> The only foe even worth considering is Russia - and NATO's combined professional armies are more than a match for them. That's been shown to be true over the last year, but prior to that it was very much an open question. Also from the perspective of "Europe" in an insular sense, it depends heavily on the large standing force and transport capability of the USA. Remember that as recently as three years ago, the occ…
> Remember that as recently as three years ago, the occupant of the white house was publicly musing about the possibility of leaving NATO and aligning with Russia!
While the president publicly said that, his actions were different. For instance, President Donald Trump instructed the United States European Command (EUCOM) to be moved from Stuttgart to Mons, near Brussels. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-germany-militar...
Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?
#53Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?
#54Most of Western Europe is unwilling to fight for their country https://preview.redd.it/of-europeans-who-would-fight-for-the...
It's likely that the countries with the lowest percentage are just coddled by the prolonged time of peace in Europe. The Finnish populace's willingness to fight for their country ("maanpuolustustahto") has increased from 68% to 83% between 2021 and 2022.
https://ruotuvaki.fi/-/maanpuolustustiedotuksen-suunnitteluk...
Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?
#55> The United Kingdom, the United States and Canada have had exclusively professional armies for 50 years or more. One idea would be for the EU, instead of individual member states, to stand up a professional army. Then you don't have to force people and it also just might bind European countries more closely together.
On the one hand, that does make a lot of sense. Some European politicians want a more unified foreign policy, and a unified military force would give more weight to this desire. On the other hand, it could get very awkward if we had another situation like we had in 2002/2003 when the US were asking other countries for support in their war on Iraq. Europe was deeply divided - at least at the leadership level - in this…
> On the other hand, it could get very awkward if we had another situation like we had in 2002/2003 when the US were asking other countries for support in their war on Iraq. Europe was deeply divided - at least at the leadership level - in this matter. With a unified EU military, countries would have to give up a large amount of sovereignty.
If you can't disagree and commit, how unified are you really?
Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?
#56I've always thought of those compulsory military training schemes as a little silly. You have a bunch of unmotivated people that don't want to be there. You have to house them, feed them, train them for what, 3, 6, 12 months? Seems like a lot of money. How long will that training last for? How soon will you need retraining to be even considered marginally useful? Isn't it better to spend that money on professional so…
You're right that it is not necessarily efficient from a military effectiveness perspective. I see it as also an educational tool/investment. As other comments have pointed out, this helps the populace internalize their responsibities in war (affecting voting), might help instill social cohesion, and yes also provides a baseline military competency in the populace in the worst case scenario (total war).
How is it an "educational tool/investment" when you are removing 18-year-olds from their education or job for several months? And "instill social cohesion" sounds a lot like "brainwashing" to me.
Those arguments don't have anything to do with conscription. You could just as well achieve the same with mandatory education, or mandatory pick-trash-up-in-the-forests.
Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
European Union is not a sovereign entity that can have its 'own' military.
Why not? What's preventing the EU from making a law that established a European military force?
a) no-one wants that, so b) no-one would vote for that, and so c) it won't happen.
In some remarkable circumstance that the EC proposed such a thing, and all the MEPs did think that was a good idea, there'd still have to be an EU treaty that allowed for it, because it's certainly beyond the scope of the CFSP. Said treaty would have to be ratified by the member states.
Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?
#58Heinlein got a lot of flak for Starship Troopers , in the wake of the Korean War and even prior to escalation in Vietnam. But he was not wrong that there's a fundamental difference in democratic outlook between someone who risks their life (even hypothetically) for their country and someone who does not. If you can vote to spend a life, even indirectly, you should have some skin in that game too.
That implies removing peoples voting rights when they reach middle age and are no longer fit to serve in the military.
There is some truth to the idea that the places where conscription really works are where politics is not polarized by age.
Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?
#59It simply doesn't make any sense for most European countries. First of all, there is no viable way to actually use conscripts. Sending them overseas to die over a patch of dirt is a really bad move, as the Vietnam war has shown. Europe doesn't really want to invade anyone, so you're left with defense. So who's going to invade? The only foe even worth considering is Russia - and NATO's combined professional armies are…
This bunch of “unmotivated young men/people” are the least likely to get a war eagerly started but are REALLY only willing to fight if it’s necessary (e.g someone invading their home country and firing artillery at their home village).
In most countries the military doesn’t serve “the people” but the will of politics.
If a big portion of your military IS YOUR SOCIETY (e.g., young men very happily doing a lot of stuff except bombing the shit out of a random country) - it reduces the risk of some bogus operation.
Having conscripts as an important foundation of your military can bring a lot of peace and stability…
Maybe you want to read up a bit on the Vietnam war and how the public was deceived; it isn’t just much “sending conscripts over to a overseas to die for some piece of dirt” - if conscripts see no purpose in fighting over that patch of land, maybe politicians shouldn’t either !?
Re: Europe: Is compulsory military service coming back?
#60It simply doesn't make any sense for most European countries. First of all, there is no viable way to actually use conscripts. Sending them overseas to die over a patch of dirt is a really bad move, as the Vietnam war has shown. Europe doesn't really want to invade anyone, so you're left with defense. So who's going to invade? The only foe even worth considering is Russia - and NATO's combined professional armies are…
> anything further west just isn't going to happen. Are you somehow not counting Austria, Greece, and Switzerland as European? [pedantic edit: the parent, to my interpretation, does not just argue that "introducing conscription would be a poor idea" but that "conscription is a poor idea" (whether one already has it or not); maybe it would be better off refined to the former?]
Switzerland most certainly is not going to start making military service compulsory.